It feels very patronising of me to make that list. — Brett
In this case, I'm being more aggressive because you are being disrespectful and condescending - patronizing - to people you don't seem to know or understand. — T Clark
I was mostly with you until the last sentence, which dips back into the condescension I referred to. — T Clark
He was hardened poor, and yet most ‘uncommon’. — Possibility
I think you might be misunderstanding the use of the word ‘common’ here.
If you had read the article by Chesterton you would understand.
I think you’re viewing the word as used by the British as a synonym for ‘uncouth’, ‘rough’, ‘impolite’. — Brett
Yes, and for my whole adult life and part of my non-adult life, much of it working class work, and yes, i know lots of people who are not college educated though for me the comman man would include many people who go to college. I consider most people the common man - though it's not a term I usually use.I'm not certain, but I think this thread may be the most pitiful I've read on the forum. Condescending, ignorant, naive, arrogant, disrespectful. Pitiful. Have any of you ever worked for a living? Do you know anybody who isn't isn't affluent or college educated? — T Clark
Chesterton refers to the ‘Common Man’ as the uneducated, — Possibility
I have a very selfish reaction to people on one level. How much can I be myself around them and what happens if I am? And then also how would I be viewed, even if nothing in particular happens, if I was fairly open. All groups have norms, so all groups judge and on some things - for every major group with would even include things I just can't categorize as dangerous - they can judge very harshly. Wrong clothes, wrong way of standing, wrong beliefs, expressing the wrong emotions, wrong leisure activities are some areas. So when we say the common man, I get a vague picture of people with conservative social values and the norms that go with that. They can come from various economic classes, but share a kind of patriotic, men are men, women are women, set of perhaps even neo-classical values- talk of character. In relation to them I feel constrained in ways I do not in relaiton to other groups, with, often, the added issue of potential violence. I am not gay, for example. But it still feels like a box. Now don't get me wrong other groups have, I think very pernicious boxes they want you in, but for example in my public schooling, I was under the thumb of the common man. Very traditional values, very traditional ideas about child rearing - though corporal punishment was no longer legal in schools. Other groups can economically punish, socially ostracise, label - at least through most of my lifetime - but the direct in the room attacks would primarily be indirect and not physical. So I have issues both with the comman man's very binary reactions and with the very blunt dangers one experienced especially when young. And, again, this is not a class issue for me, though more of the comman man is not middle class, they are in there also. The midwest is filled with commen mon in all classes for example.I can’t help thinking that the common man is looked down on by people (who I’m reluctant to define: inner city, whatever) because his life just looks so ordinary to those who need constant stimulation, constant new experiences and as a result constant change. And yet it’s the ‘ordinaryness’ that’s behind his survival against all the ‘isms’. Whatever you people might think, he is a survivor. I don’t know why his values are so shunned. — Brett
My father was forced out of school at 13, spent time living on the street, etc before raising five kids on a meagre postman’s salary - rain, hail or shine for 30 years. He spent much of his spare time educating himself - before the internet - and continually reflected on who he was and what he did. He was hardened poor, and yet most ‘uncommon’. — Possibility
Yes, and for my whole adult life and part of my non-adult life, much of it working class work, and yes, i know lots of people who are not college educated though for me the comman man would include many people who go to college. I consider most people the common man - though it's not a term I usually use. — Coben
If it’s true that such a man exists and has always been there, and endured, then why, how?
How and why do they survive centuries of nonsense? — Brett
What I was meaning is that they’ve done so without giving up their values. — Brett
I think we all know what’s meant today in using the term post modernism, just like we know, accurately or not, what we mean by ‘Kafkaesque’. In the end post modernism meant absurdity. — Brett
I am sure some don't, though I see a lot disappointed: in God, in life, in their country...and changing. The mass may stay the same but individuals can shift when presented with enough experience that seems, at least, to counter their values being right. — Coben
That’s quite true, but as you say, the mass may stay the same. Individual have always moved away from their roots and started a new life. Of course it doesn’t necessarily mean they abandoned their original values, nor that those values fail to find a place in their new life — Brett
Yes, their values have shaped the world. I don't think for the most part they are the creators of these values. They are taken from traditions and everyday lived out. There is a delay between the making of these values and their application and belief by everyday people. And some of these ideas were made to consolidate power.So my question is, have or have not these values shaped the world. — Brett
And if they have is the world a better place or not, and if they have shaped the world then why is the ‘common man’ not in a better position as a result? — Brett
often the very ideas they hold are not even in their best interests or are part of oppressive systems. I think parts of religious beliefs are like this, — Coben
Probably. It can be painful to notice what is really happening or that things might be better. Hopefully there comes a time when things shift or you do and you can then notice without being overwhelmed.That’s true, and it’s offered opportunities for oppression or manipulation. But I would also assume that there have been times when it’s all they had and it’s what got them through. — Brett
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