You’re kidding, right? You want me to list people I know and then prove their existence to you? — Brett

I asked for one example of what you said existed. Apologies for trying to get you to put your money where your mouth was.

Regards
DL

What is this a playground with clever comebacks? — Coben

If it is, you are out of your league.

Regards
DL

What you wrote here does not contradict what I wrote. — Coben

You wrote nonsense, like this ---.

"I am saying that love is a kind of faith,"

Faith is based on nothing.

Regards
DL

Gnostics are dualists, seeing ‘this fallen world’ as a trap, and all matter evil and a source of misery, the only escape from which is gained by asceticism and denial of the world. Nothing about traditional gnosticism was 'human-centred' - in fact that's the main reason they lost the battle with orthodoxy. Although I suspect that this is one of those conversations where facts don't matter, so I'll butt out. — Wayfarer

Lies propagated by the inquisitors to discredit us and justify their use of murder.

Let me speak to the lie of our hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

Even presenting quotes from the very gnostics he quotes that go against his position never leads to a concession. — Coben

Yes, because I can speak to then from a modern and evolved viewpoint.

We are not what we were 1,000 and 2,000 years ago.

We have progressed while the mainstream have stagnated with their homophobic and misogynistic teachings.

Regards
DL

They are fierce defenders of pro-life, — god must be atheist

Only if someone else foots the bill.

They will not put their money where their mouths are.

Regards
DL

In the OP you said the gods or God does not have good moral fiber. Why do you say that? Which religion are you talking about? — christian2017

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

and indeed low levels of intelligence are associated with high levels of fundamentalism, — Gilbert

I have noted that as well.

Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Regards
DL

I asked for one example of what you said existed. Apologies for trying to get you to put your money where your mouth was. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Its a ridiculous request to make. You could not have been serious in the asking. One example? My neighbour Larry, just had a moral discussion with him this morning and he is very religious. Satisfied?
Maybe you go into morals and religious folks flee like dogs, that could be your experience. That hasnt been my experience and Ive had moral conversations with plenty of religious folks. Google “moral debates” and you will get results 1-2 hours long involving religious people. What a laughable position for you to hold.
I have an alternate theory as to why religious folks flee your attempts at discussions based off my observations on this forum: because you talk like an asshole, and direct it at these religious people.
I understand your anger at religion, and I understand why you would extend some of that anger at the sheep of the flock but don’t make up a shortcoming about others in order to explain your own.

don’t make up a shortcoming about others in order to explain your own. — DingoJones

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

Holy shit. Nothing gets through huh? None of that has anything to do with what I was talking about.
In addition, none of it is a new thought from you and some of it is verbatim what you have already said. What a good little Gnostic Warrior you are, forge ahead, don’t listen, double down on attacks and repeat yourself rather than address anything of substance. If you were capable of looking into a mirror, you would see more than one ugly similarity between you and what you are attacking.

If you were capable of looking into a mirror, you would see more than one ugly similarity between you and what you are attacking. — DingoJones

Not uglier. Better and more learned.

What you were talking of is garbage. If you want to match wits, get some.

Regards
DL

Lol, im an honourable person, I would never try and match wits with such an unarmed opponent. Matching wits isnt what I was doing. (How could I possibly stoop low enough for it to be fair?)
Its amazing how little you actually paid attention here. I didnt say “uglier”. I was alluding to similarities in your aggressive, dogmatic behaviour towards people you are attacking for their aggressive, dogmatic behaviour.

Yes, I have become my enemy and have bested his ways with truth instead of his lies.

Regards
DL

If it is, you are out of your league. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Well, there's a vote for clever comebacks over substance.

Only if someone else foots the bill.

They will not put their money where their mouths are. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

These people will stand in the rain and snow outside of planned parenthood, willing to talk or yell at anyone for months. You're just making stuff up to say they all run away.

Focus on the problems with what they believe and do. You don't have to make up other stuff. It's just embarrassing for you.

If they always ran, there wouldn't be a problem and you know that.

You're just making stuff — Coben

Then I guess we are done as I see you doing just that.

Regards
DL

You wrote nonsense, like this ---.

"I am saying that love is a kind of faith,"

Faith is based on nothing. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

1) love is not logical - that is like faith. It is non-logical
2) there is faith in involved in tfhinking that those feelings of attraction can lead to all the things a marriage or long term love can lead to. That is like faith.
3) there are emipirical aspect to every religious person's faith. They feel a sense of holiness in church. They feel emotional connection to the stories of Jesus. At one point in prayer they felt peace. Wahtever

and yes, I know you see this as them interpreting falsely their subjective experiences.

Interpreting falsely one's subjective experiences. Who has not done that in love?

You can never say anything wrong. The sign of a religious fanatic, in this case a gnostic one.

faith
noun: faith
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation
"he completely justified his boss's faith in him"

antonyms: mistrust

2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

That is not the definition of love, stupid. Go look it up and learn English.

Regards
DL

Nothing that I know of, other than personal renderings or hear say, has ever been produced or provide to show the existence of a supernatural realm or entities. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Since I was a kid growing up in an atheist family The Angel of God would manifest & take me away with him & teach me things. He would take me to The garden of Eden & to see The saints in Heaven. He would take me to Hell & I was made to watch people being herded in & judged one by one, & then they were thrown into the fiery lake & i had to watch them burning in agony. God has taken me there many times & it is very real. God says the earth is a school where all souls are sent at some stage to learn about good & evil & become good. God says "The only thing people own are the good deeds they do on earth". God says that the earth is ruled by Satan which is God's Police Force that keeps people struggling with the lower nature instead of mingling with angels etc. God says that no angels can manifest on earth or they will be torn apart by Satan's dogs. Personally I witnessed 2 angels being ripped apart by the beasts when they tied to manifest. Another time an angel manifested & within minutes a powerful buzzing noise came out of the sky & a huge orb appeared & scared the angel away instantly. So it is not easy for the angels of God to manifest. They have to wait till the coast is clear & then they manifest only for short periods.
Of course it is obvious that no one can be expected to believe a thing I say. And you are very bitter & negative towards the idea that a God truly exists & yet does nothing.
All I can suggest is that you try to make your life more pleasant by keeping an open mind & refusing to indulge in negative thought processes which only darken your mood. If you keep an open mind toward God then I am sure that God will manifest some personal proof for you sooner or later.

Life, the universe and everything aren't "safe". We base our thinking on speculation and the like because there's nothing more concrete available. If you think you know stuff - really know stuff - then you are very lucky ... or more likely, deluded. Much of "reality" is unknown and unknowable to us. Sometimes it's fiction or nothing.

Very nicely put. I agree.
I'm religious and I believe in the supernatural.
My religion helps me to organize my mind. The religious concepts and stories help me fit the world into a pattern that makes sense to me and gives me stability. Through faith, I understand my place in the world and my relation to other people, and to nature.
That being said, I'm enough of a sceptic to admit that there's no proof to my beliefs, and in the end it's a personal choice. And for me, there is no dissonance between religion and science. A god that would gift me with a rational mind and then ask me to believe blindly in incoherent concepts... that's absurd.
The supernatural is exactly that: The part of the world that we cannot grasp with science and logic. So we need to rely on intuition, metaphor and faith.

He would take me to Hell & I was made to watch people being herded in & judged one by one, & then they were thrown into the fiery lake & i had to watch them burning in agony. — Ocean777

Interesting.

Did you, or will you, ask Yahweh why he does the opposite of what Jesus said he came to do?
You show Yahweh taking the satanic moral position and killing when he can cure, while Jesus said he came to cure and not kill.

Ask your god Yahweh why he does the satanic thing instead of the Jesus thing.

You do think it is better to cure than to kill I hope.

God says that no angels can manifest on earth or they will be torn apart by Satan's dogs. — Ocean777

??

Do you not believe that the sons of god, angels, came to earth as Nephelims and used the earth as a brothel and forced god to use genocide in Noah's day? Do you believe in Noah's flood?

If you keep an open mind toward God then I am sure that God will manifest some personal proof for you sooner or later. — Ocean777

I have admitted to having suffered my own apotheosis and spoke with god the one time and learned enough to keep me for many years.

I find it strange that god would have to spend so much time with you and just shows you un-provable and really worthless garbage instead of giving you wisdom.

All I got was one instruction. It was all I needed I guess.

Regards
DL

Very nicely put. I agree. — WerMaat

:blush:

I'm religious and I believe in the supernatural.

My religion helps me to organize my mind. The religious concepts and stories help me fit the world into a pattern that makes sense to me and gives me stability. Through faith, I understand my place in the world and my relation to other people, and to nature.

That being said, I'm enough of a sceptic to admit that there's no proof to my beliefs, and in the end it's a personal choice. And for me, there is no dissonance between religion and science. A god that would gift me with a rational mind and then ask me to believe blindly in incoherent concepts... that's absurd.

The supernatural is exactly that: The part of the world that we cannot grasp with science and logic. So we need to rely on intuition, metaphor and faith. — WerMaat

I'll return the compliment: Very nicely put. I agree.

It's a common observation, but it seems it needs saying one more time: not all religion is Christian, or even Abrahamic. "The supernatural" covers much more than just this.

Ask your god Yahweh why he does the satanic thing instead of the Jesus thing — Gnostic Christian Bishop

well I was like you when I met God in person. I questioned God's ethics based upon the religious ideas the world of man had taught me. I discovered it was like an ignorant foolish child questioning the wisdom of an elder. You have to meet God in person again & again & learn how to be with God frequently & hear Him Speak. It takes a long time to understand God just a little. Small amounts of knowledge leaves many questions, but after being with God for a long time you'll have no more questions & will be happy with God & will love God with all your being.

Religious people always debate ideas with each other. They rarely see eye to eye & even contradict their own scriptures frequently. And they taught religion to the world. LOL. So our ideas (knowledge) about religion & the truth about God it holds are faulty. Religious folk killed Jesus in the story. So they were seeing religion as superior to God, & they still do. One religious man came to my door to preach & when I said that I have met God he demanded that I believe the bible & not the God I had met. So you can see how people think religion is absolute truth when it is not. It is very much like today's news reports which captivate us fully at first, till we learn in the following days that things didn't actually happen the way the original report said they did.

God just spoke & said religious people are parrots. LOL
Keep an open mind towards God my brother. It is worth your very soul. Never turn your back on God. Don't ever do that please

The supernatural" covers much more than just this. — Pattern-chaser

Being imaginary, the supernatural can cover whatever people say it covers.

If Yahweh or any other mainstream god can live in some supernatural realm, then so can Odin and Thor.

Right?

Regards
DL

You have to meet God in person again & again — Ocean777

So you prefer to talk of god's reality, where we have no possible end game, instead of talking the morals of your god, if as scriptures say or not, where we can have an end game.

That is a sign of hypocrisy my friend.

How much of the bible have you scrapped?

What do you believe are your god's morals in terms of what little of the bible you do believe and use?

Let's chat morals or end this endless and useless discussion about god. I don't think you even believe in god as you totally ignored my apotheosis, while continuing to talk of yours.

Regards
DL

How much of the bible have you scrapped? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No two bibles say the same thing my brother. lol

Let's chat morals — Gnostic Christian Bishop

no, you are simply seething with hatred as you were on all the other sites. It is close to impossible to converse with people clearly at the best of times, & with someone as disturbed as you it is absolutely nonsensical to even try. You will rant & pour out hatred towards God for your entire life till you start meeting with God & become wiser.

God just called you a damaged vessel that is trying to mask itself as a whole vessel. God's words, not mine.

God just called you a damaged vessel — Ocean777

Thanks for sharing your delusion and showing that you are a piss poor apologist for any god.
Talk to god a lot more. You really need it.

Regards
DL

If Yahweh or any other mainstream god can live in some supernatural realm, then so can Odin and Thor.

Right? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Right! :up: