The key conclusion is that a self that is purley based on doubt can not doubt itself at it's core. This view simultainously asserts that there seem to be other domains, being part of the self, that can be doubted. So the self would have only uncertainties no matter what is in question exept it's own existence. — CaZaNOx
the experience of the domain or 'world' of the solipsist is truth apt from within the world, and not by analysis wrt. to other domains. — Wallows
if I and you spoke different languages — Wallows
If we look at descartes cogito (ergo) sum (I think, (therefore) I am) — CaZaNOx
Where is the pointer to an external world in this at all? — CaZaNOx
the solipsist can only doubt if and only if there is something more than the self of the solipsist in existence. — Wallows
In other words don't you need specific assumptions to justify your iff. — CaZaNOx
In the analogy of death I used above: death as internal shortcoming/necessary process change from within without conceptualizing external factors that lead to death (this case gets clearer if a solipsistic position doesn't necessarily postulate a material body that could be subject to external forces.) — CaZaNOx
Therefore, if one can doubt when confronted with any skeptical argument, then that implies that knowledge is possible, and that we don't live in a solipsistic world. — Wallows
If your belief that the external material world existed was false then you wouldn't be able to have doubts and knowledge would be impossible? — GodlessGirl
Before you asserted that belief in the external material world was warranted and now you are saying it cannot be proven false. — GodlessGirl
In order to know something you have to know that the contrary is impossible. — GodlessGirl
How could you justifiy your belief in the external material world without begging the question? — GodlessGirl
Well, yes just as the fact that I am doubting cannot be proven false or analogously the cogito ergo sum entails that existence is a prerequisite for the statement to even be plausible. Conversely what would the contrapositive even mean in that case? — Wallows
I am saying you do not have justification that the external material world exists. — GodlessGirl
Doubt doesn't presuppose you aren't a solipsist. — GodlessGirl
It could be said that there is more to the self that one's knowledge of the self at a particular time. — leo
As an analogy, if you consider that a lucid dream stems from a self, then there are things you can doubt within a lucid dream, but that doesn't imply in itself that the lucid dream stems from something outside the self. Then continuing with that analogy, to a solipsist everything is a lucid dream, so doubt doesn't imply something outside the self, but only that the self doesn't know itself completely. — leo
A limitation in this kind of discussion is that our language and concepts stem from what we experience, so for instance the very concept of doubt stems from our experiences, and then if you assume that doubt cannot exist if there is only a self then you conclude that there is something separate from the self, but if you assume that doubt is a normal part of the self then it doesn't follow that there is something separate from it. — leo
Yes, go on, what do you mean by something separate from the self? — Wallows
We could see all of us as part of one self, seemingly disconnected, but connected in a way we have not quite uncovered yet. — leo
I'm planning on writing a paper soon about the relationship between epistemological solipsism and using it as an ad hoc proof that knowledge is possible. I'm looking for some feedback or how to shape these loose ends into something coherent.
A while back I come to the conclusion that for any solipsist inhabiting a 'world', that solipsist cannot doubt. One of the implications of such a hinge proposition is that if a man or woman were presented with Descartes Evil Demon, which prods the fictional Job or what have you to doubt, then the very process of doubting cannot be doubted itself implying that the doubting of the evil demon is proof that the person is not living in a hermetically sealed off world of their own (brain in vat)/(solipsism).
Therefore, if one can doubt when confronted with any skeptical argument, then that implies that knowledge is possible, and that we don't live in a solipsistic world.
Let me expand on this idea of epistemological solipsism. The world of the solipsist is one and the same with the self of the solipsist. What does this mean? It means that doubt cannot arise, because the world of the solipsist is full of certainty. To present this issue another way, epistemologically the solipsist is hermetically sealed off from anything beyond what constitutes their 'world'.
That's about the gist of it.
Main points:
Descartes Evil Demon causes an individual to doubt.
A solipsist can never doubt, and live in a world full of certainty.
Therefore, in the presence of doubt knowledge is possible.
Hence, the Evil Demon's prodding to doubt is proof that an external world exists. — Wallows
First off I dont even understand how you get from "thoughts exist therefore a self exists" What is the self? — GodlessGirl
Then address the following if you will:Yet another "Huh?" response from me. A lot of what you wrote seems bewildering to me. — Terrapin Station
The first question, I suppose, is why are you conflating solipsism and whether knowledge is possible? — Terrapin Station
Epistemically the solipsist lives in absolute certainty. — Wallows
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