So in the end when you boil down that person that you are to its bare minimum you realize that you are a combination of your parents, your experiences and your tastes that may also rely on your experiences.... — Filipe

In my books that's good enough to define the real me.

What, in your view, would constitute a real person? What you wrote is what comprises a real person to me.

@Marchesk, a case in point...

There is no Real you because your personality is simply a compilation of your tastes with your experiences and both of those things are beyond any type of reasonable control. — Filipe

...to our earlier discussion.

We don't do anything; the Cosmos does us.

So in the end when you boil down that person that you are to its bare minimum you realize that you are a combination of your parents, your experiences and your tastes that may also rely on your experiences.... — Filipe

I learned this when my children were born. I've talked about it with other parents too, and most of them agree. Babies being born are all there. They are the people they will be from the first second. It doesn't matter why they are that way - genetics, chance, in utero experience. They are real people and they will continue to develop as they grow. They are not empty sacks to be filled with experience.

personality is simply — Filipe

To paraphrase Richard Feynman, the now deceased bongo-playing nuclear physicist (1945), "Nothing is simply". (He said "nothing is 'mere'".)

Another thing he said was that "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool." An earthier form of this is "Don't believe your own bullshit." Big mistake!

the people that caused them — Filipe

So, how did these other people get executive agency (which requires a 'real you') so they could cause stuff?

when you boil down that person — Filipe

I am willing to boil you down. When would you like to step into my vat of boiling water? I predict the real you will appear in the form of screams before your foot is submerged, never mind the rest of you.

Yes; but, don't memories serve as some sort of proof that we actually have something that constitutes an identity?

I learned this when my children were born. I've talked about it with other parents too, and most of them agree. Babies being born are all there. They are the people they will be from the first second. — T Clark

"The child is father to the man." I think William Shakespeare.

Your being is simply an expression of the universe happening — Filipe

This is true. The universe happens, we exist. And we are real. The universe is real, right? Things that happen in the universe are real, right? One of the infinity of things that happen in the real universe is our existence as unique real beings.

Why do people focus on questions as to whether something is real or not? Something about such questions seems very fishy.

"The child is father to the man." I think William Shakespeare. — god must be atheist

Thank god I majored in English! No, it was William Wordsworth (1770 - 1850).

My heart leaps up when I behold
A rainbow in the sky:
So was it when my life began;
So is it now I am a man;
So be it when I shall grow old,
Or let me die!
The Child is father of the Man;
And I could wish my days to be
Bound each to each by natural piety.

Something about such questions seems very fishy. — Wallows

He probably thinks there are no real fish, as well. It's like all the "How do I know I am not a brain in a vat... I am not in the Matrix... I am the only person that exists... other people are not real... nothing is real... the universe isn't real... get real... etc.

Well, I was right with the "William". Ought to have quit while I was still ahead and stop at William.

Another poet:

"I was so much older then... I'm younger than that now."

Here's the real deal:


My Back, Pages!
Bob Dylan

Crimson flames tied through my ears, rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon, " said I, proud 'neath heated brow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth, "rip down all hate, " I screamed
Lies that life is black and white spoke from my skull, I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers foundationed deep, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

Girls' faces formed the forward path from phony jealousy
To memorizing politics of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists, unthought of, though somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now

A self-ordained professor's tongue too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty is just equality in school
"Equality, " I spoke the word as if a wedding vow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach
My existence led by confusion boats, mutiny from stern to bow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms quite clear, no doubt, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then I'm younger than that now

Why do people focus on questions as to whether something is real or not? — Wallows

I concur. Is reality wrong?

I concur. Is reality wrong? — god must be atheist

Maybe people don't like it (reality) being right all the time?

He probably thinks there are no real fish, as well. — Bitter Crank

Well, I hope to hell there are no real fish in my water form the well.

Maybe people don't like it (reality) being right all the time? — Wallows

Yeah... reality... fucking know-it-all.

Excellent choice. Dylan deserved the Nobel for his poetry. For some of his singing, he should walk the plank.

two of his older songs -- due to both lyrics and music -- make me cry every time I hear them. "Mighty Quinn" and "Watchtower". MQ is about a pusher who brings snow (heroine?) and the Watchtower is about ... erm... I still don't know, having listened to it a million times, but it simply wrestles your soul to the ground.

Both songs have a better verson than by Dylan. MQ by Manfred Mann, W by Jimi.

And then there is "Tangled Up In Blue"... it is a masterpiece. Both music and lyrics.

I was extremely happy when the news came out he got it. I never felt more healthy pride... I felt that finally one of "us" got the award of distinction. By "us" I meant the flower children and everyone else who came after. "I hope that I die before I get old" sort of people. (ironically, we all got old...reality. Again! What a gyp.)

we all got old — god must be atheist

Growing old is a very good thing, because otherwise one is dead.

Growing old is a very good thing, because otherwise one is dead. — Bitter Crank

The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? None else but death.

Dylan deserved the Nobel for his poetry. — Bitter Crank

What a bunch of bullshit. He's a songwriter, not a poet. I like some of his stuff, but people worship him. And yes, his voice is crap.

On the other hand, "I'm not saying you treated me unkind. You could have done better, but I don't mind. You just sort of wasted my precious time. Don't think twice, it's alright." Greatest breakup song ever. Always makes me wish I had someone to break up with.

Although I am against women singing Don't Think Twice - they generally don't get enough bitterness in it - this is my favorite version, more for the violin solo than the singing. It gets the bitterness just right.

What a bunch of bullshit. He's a songwriter, not a poet. I like some of his stuff, but people worship him. And yes, his voice is crap. — T Clark

Pronouncing Dylan Nobel worthy was, as you said, a bunch of bullshit, but in that case I don't really believe my own bullshit. I have no desire to listen to anything beyond his early work. If all his later works were to burn up in a music warehouse fire (shit happens) I'd not weep.

Songwriter vs. poet... I quarrel with this, because a lot of song lyrics read just exactly like poetry. It's amazing. Whether a great hymn lyric, broadway musical lyric, or protest song lyric, great lyrics read like great poetry, and I'm fine with that.

Let's make a deal: I'll now say that the Nobel Committee was full of Swedish shit (in awarding the prize to Dylan) and you can now start calling Bob's lyrics poetry.

Let's make a deal: I'll now say that the Nobel Committee was full of Swedish shit (in awarding the prize to Dylan) and you can now start calling Bob's lyrics poetry. — Bitter Crank

Let's go further and admit that the Nobel prize is bullshit, coming in a close second only to the Hanover Award. For someone to think it matters that Dylan got the prize means they must think the prize matters.

The way the Hanover award is awarded is I carefully review the prospect's body of work, pretending to critically evaluate it, and then I give it to the guy who is most politically aligned with my views. I won it again this year. In your face @Baden. Maybe next year.

There is no Real you because your personality is simply a compilation of your tastes with your experiences and both of those things are beyond any type of reasonable control. — Filipe

My "real me" isn't something that I believe is ultimately under my control, and it's not something that I take to be simply a compilation of my tastes and experiences.

So if you want to argue that there is no "real me," you're going to need something better than that.

The way the Hanover award is awarded is I carefully review the prospect's body of work, pretending to critically evaluate it, and then I give it to the guy who is most politically aligned with my views. I won it again this year. — Hanover

I object :down: Most strongly :naughty:
This should be open to a public vote. From a list of 5, compiled by the contributors and readers of this thread. Who can best answer the question 'Who Am I ?' :chin:
Not me. You. Who are you ?

Who Are We ?

Tom Clark, editor of Prospect magazine, reveals:

The three-word question consuming the world’s biggest brains

We have consulted closely with global authorities on economics, history and science about their peers, and considered the books and ideas we can see making waves. The biggest of these waves – by far – are those concerning identity...

What exactly, disparate thinkers are asking, does it mean to be American, Muslim, Indian, female, black or simply human?...

As it happens, the first three names on the list – and they are just alphabetical for now, with a public vote to pick the top 10 open – are all wrestling with identity. Naomi Alderman’s novel Disobedience, about a London rabbi’s bisexual daughter, explores how faith communities can find space for difference; Syrian architect Marwa al-Sabouni explains how deadly walls of misunderstanding in Syria grew up due to a dearth of public spaces; philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah reconciles the importance of grounded identities with the need to protect vulnerable groups...
— Tom Clark

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/17/three-word-question-world-biggest-brains-survey-intellectuals

My "real me" isn't something that I believe is ultimately under my control, and it's not something that I take to be simply a compilation of my tastes and experiences. — Terrapin Station

So, who are you ? Real or otherwise ?

Why do people focus on questions as to whether something is real or not? Something about such questions seems very fishy. — Wallows

I guess it's what some philosophical types are interested in. What is it that seems 'very fishy' ?
The underlying issue is about identity. Reasons are given for the claim. An argument is offered.
A fairly typical hook, I would say.

There is no Real you because your personality is simply a compilation of your tastes with your experiences and both of those things are beyond any type of reasonable control. — Filipe

So, if I bite, I might first ask what do you mean by 'Real' ? As opposed to what ? Imaginary ?

So, who are you ? Real or otherwise ? — Amity

A complex of different dynamic bodily parts and functions, where for "personal identity," the focus is on a complex of different dynamic brain functions that amount to mentality--thoughts/ideas, desires, concepts, memories, senses of self, etc.

Oh good. There have been few more oppressively onerous ideas than that of the 'real you'. Nice to see it being done away with.

A complex of different dynamic bodily parts and functions, where for "personal identity," the focus is on a complex of different dynamic brain functions that amount to mentality--thoughts/ideas, desires, concepts, memories, senses of self, etc. — Terrapin Station

So, a pretty pared back bundle of mentality, then ?
Is that what you would write about 'You' in your autobiography ?