It’s useless for people to keep condemning Trump’s racism. it’s one of the things that got him there - he gives voice to things that nobody is supposed to say, but that clearly enough people believe to keep him in office. Trump’s racist comments should just be completely ignored; as long as they’re news, you’re just playing his game. — Wayfarer

I agree with the first part of this but not the second. I do not know what the best strategy is to defeat Trump, but I don't think ignoring what he says is the answer. Drawing attention to them may embolden some section of his followers but surely there are others who are upset by them, and, in addition, there are others who are undecided that may be sickened by what is happening and decide that they must vote for someone who opposes him.

The problem is complicated, however, by the fact that the term 'racist' is thrown around indiscriminately. When, for example, Ocasio-Cortez accuses Pelosi of “persistent[ly] singling out ... newly elected women of color” she does damage to the causes she is promoting. Pelosi does not disagree with them because they are women of color, but that is what Ocasio -Cortez makes it about even though she later said that Pelosi is not a racist, thus further muddying the waters.

The United States is great because of people like those women, who are changing what needs changed from the inside, because they love our country. Wanting change does not equate to hating one's country.

Trump is an idiot. (in my opinion, these people hate our country)

Rabble-rousers... oh how definitions and values can change.

Trump is not.

Thomas Paine was. John Hancock was. Paul Revere was. Crispus Attucks was not. Jefferson was. Washington was. Hamilton was.

I do not know what the best strategy is to defeat Trump, but I don't think ignoring what he says is the answer. Drawing attention to them may embolden some section of his followers but surely there are others who are upset by them, and, in addition, there are others who are undecided that may be sickened by what is happening and decide that they must vote for someone who opposes him. — Fooloso4

Have we learned anything new about Trump since being elected? Does anything he's done as President reveal anything about his character that wasn't already well known?

On top of that, we have a good economy, and a lot of people (bizarrely) think that Presidents control the economy.

So here's how to ensure Trump will be reelected: let him (and the Republicans), frame the debate in terms of protecting the country from socialism/communism. Show that the Republicans are right to assert Democrats want open borders, want to do away with private health insurance, want to raise individual's taxes, and are ready to start writing those reparations checks.

If you don't want Trump reelected, push for a centrist Democrat that will appeal to the working class and will not fit the Republican's caricature.

If you don't want Trump reelected, push for a centrist Democrat that will appeal to the working class and will not fit the Republican's caricature. — Relativist

Maybe. One problem with this is that there is some percentage of voters who voted for Obama who voted for Trump because they wanted change. Until they believe the Democratic candidate will bring change they may either stick with Trump or not vote. Another problem is that the center is a moving scale. Since the Tea Party the Republican party moved to the right of Reagan and with Trump even further. So where is the center?

If you don't want Trump reelected, push for a centrist Democrat that will appeal to the working class — Relativist

This is so fucking funny because the Democrats nominated Clinton who was a centrist and she nevertheless lost, but sure let's just try again for a banal centrist Democrat with no actual ideas other than being anti-Trump. Two of the top polling Democratic candidates are Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, and many of the other candidates have had to mimic their Leftist politics to gain traction because that's exactly where the conversation within the Democratic party has been going towards, and needs to lean into.

The GOP will call literally anyone in the Democratic party a socialist. They will say that the Democratic nominee is calling for open borders regardless of the person's actually border proposals. They will say whatever the fuck they want about the Democratic candidate's policies around healthcare and taxation regardless of the actual content of their proposals. Where have you been in the last ten year? The GOP will lie and lie and lie in order to appeal and rally a segment of voters. Literally a decade ago they said that Obama's ACA would lead to "death panels". So are you kidding me? Who the fuck cares about GOP/Trump supporters and what they think? This sort of hand-wringing is what has helped lead to GOP political power despite being an essentially defeated party back in 2008.

The way to win is to animate the Democratic base is with actual progressive policy proposals on issues people actually care about, such as Climate Change, Income Inequality, Healthcare, and Gun Control (and what's interesting is how different the 2018 voter issues are compared with the 2014 issues here....Climate Change and Healthcare have become top concerns now).

Further, Independents need to be inspired. They weren't inspired by Clinton. Only 42% of Independent voters voted for Clinton vs. 46% who voted Trump. Compare this with Obama's inspirational and progressive campaign in 2008 when he won 52% of the Independent vote vs. McCain's 44%.

What's also funny (read: absurd, tragic, rip my eyeballs out) is that NO ONE is telling the GOP be more moderate in order to appeal to more voters. Trump's strategy in the past two years has been to double down in appealing to the voting bloc that elected him to office, at the expense of alienating his more skeptic voters. Attendants at his rally yesterday yelled "Send Her Back" towards an elected congresswoman who is an American citizen for fuck's sake. This is the only president since national polling came about, who has never achieved over 50% approval. We also just had a HUGE rebuke of Trumpism in the form of the Midterms where Democrats won the biggest seat turnover in Congress since the early 70s.

Here's the problematic issues: Medicare for all, open borders, and reparations. They cannot pass anyway, so steer away from candidates who promise these - they scare some people away.

McConnell called statehood for Puerto Rico and Washington D.C. "socialism" for fucks sake!!!

This is so fucking funny because the Democrats nominated Clinton who was a centrist and she nevertheless lost, — Maw

Clinton was also....Clinton. who suffered from years of demonization. Lots of people voted against her, or didn't vote. Consider how low Trump's margin of victory was in key states - remove the anti-Hillary factor and you get a win.

And seriously, do you really think those issues I mentioned could pass? Is it worth taking a chance on them?

Democrats did not elect Clinton. The DNC elected Clinton. The people would've elected Sanders had they been able to make their minds up for themselves. The pattern was recognized and intentionally avoided by Clinton and her support team. Quite telling that Obama and Clinton had upwards of 30 public debates. These are pivotal for free and fair elections. The more people see and hear Clinton, the less fans she has. Bernie got somewhere between 5 and 10 debates, and those were not at good time slots for the highest numbers of public viewing(during highly anticipated popular sporting events) . Despite the infrequency, after each debate his numbers grew significantly and hers dropped. The writing was on the wall.

The lack of coverage for Bernie was unacceptable in a purported republic with democratic traditions. Shameful. Points back to the real problem, including but not limited to...

...legitimized bribery.

Yeah, Bernie probably will lose out to Warren; but, I'm fine with that and I suspect he is too.

Bernie suffers from being just another old white guy... suffers from racist thought. Ironic but true. I have actually heard many well educated, normally well spoken, minority women and men say exactly that...

Anyone except another old white guy...

Shame.

I would be happy to vote for Warren, except I have this irritant in the back of my mind. I remember how she endorsed Hillary despite her position being in near perfect alignment with Bernie. Despite her knowledge - deep knowledge - of the 2008 crash. Despite her knowledge of Hillary's financial ties. Despite her knowledge of Hillary's economic policies. Despite all her knowledge, she still endorsed Hillary...

Odd to say the least.

Too much feminist thought(anyone except another white guy) clouding one's judgment? Perhaps.

Clinton was also....Clinton. who suffered from years of demonization. Lots of people voted against her, or didn't vote. Consider how low Trump's margin of victory was in key states - remove the anti-Hillary factor and you get a win — Relativist

Clinton was and continues to be demonized,sure, but you can't exclude her lackluster campaign and banal centrist policy proposals as a factor for her underwhelming performance.

And seriously, do you really think those issues I mentioned could pass? Is it worth taking a chance on them? — Relativist

When Trump ran on building a wall and demonizing immigrants did anyone ask this? Maybe, but yet he won despite a large majority opposing the wall and a majority of Americans believing that immigrants strengthen the nation. The GOP also passed major tax cuts despite more Americans disapproving than approving.

Most polls show that Medicare For All enjoys majority approval. No Democratic candidate is supporting an open border policy so I have no idea why you mention that. Reparations is more of a tertiary proposal rather than a focal one, but it's nevertheless has a split approval rating among Democrats, and notably has increased in popularity since 2014, even among Republicans.

I have actually heard many well educated, normally well spoken, minority women and men say exactly that — creativesoul

Weird because he's viewed favorably by the Black, Hispanic, and Asian communities. More so than Whites, in fact.

A lot of you don't read and it shows.

Weird but very true. They all have lots of letters after their names too... if that matters to you.


That popularity thing is good know. A glimmer of hope? I've been out of the political news loop - intentionally - for quite a while.

The quality of the material being read matters too... right? :wink:

I've been out of the political news loop - intentionally - for quite a while. — creativesoul

Right, I said it shows

What have I missed that matters?

What have I missed that matters? — creativesoul

Lots of things, but I'm not your private recapper

I think Kamila Harris is the dark horse in this race. Out of all the potential candidates, she and Warren have the highest chance of toppling Trump.

Trump’s racist comments should just be completely ignored; as long as they’re news, you’re just playing his game.
— Wayfarer

I agree with the first part of this but not the second. I do not know what the best strategy is to defeat Trump, but I don't think ignoring what he says is the answer. Drawing attention to them may embolden some section of his followers but surely there are others who are upset by them, and, in addition, there are others who are undecided that may be sickened by what is happening and decide that they must vote for someone who opposes him. — Fooloso4

OK, maybe not 'ignored' but not given such hysterical and massive coverage. A big part of Trump's arsenal is to create outrage and then leverage it for coverage. It's disgusting, of course, but everything about Trump is disgusting, so the way that all the media outlets pile on simply helps him monopolise the headlines and grab more attention - usually about something quite irrelevant to the actual office of the Presidency.

If you don't want Trump reelected, push for a centrist Democrat that will appeal to the working class — Relativist

Hey I agree with you. I'm not an American (although I have near relatives in the US) but from where I sit, this internecine squabbling between the Democrats is a complete distraction. They need to pick a centrist candidate and all get behind him/her, and pronto.

Hey I agree with you. I'm not an American (although I have near relatives in the US) but from where I sit, this internecine squabbling between the Democrats is a complete distraction. They need to pick a centrist candidate and all get behind him/her, and pronto. — Wayfarer

This is basically Biden's strategy. And, it didn't work in 2016, so why would it now?

Biden didn't run in the last campaign but seems to me most electable. Elizabeth Warren is far more comprehensive from a policy development P-O-V - but would the US electorate vote for her? I think not. 'The squad' are fantastically interesting to the media, but they're far too left to win Middle America. Basically I think Biden should pick Warren as running mate and the DNC fall in behind them, and quickly. It's a case where 'the perfect is the enemy of the good'.

It would literally be a repeat of 2016 just Clinton with a penis.

If you mean that Biden is only more popular given his exposure to the media, then yeah he is more of a household name. But, Trump wouldn't have to think up much given the festering hatered for anything 'Obama' that has possessed the GOP.

It would literally be a repeat of 2016 just Clinton with a penis. — Wallows

well that's utterly ridiculous.

Keep in mind, @Wayfarer that I'm talking not about hotelling, but rather voter turnout...

I will stop wasting your time, then.

Whatever floats your boat.

More rhetoric...

Meh.