For example, did you have a good childhood? Do you have lots of good relationships? Do you enjoy your work? Is it good epigenetics? — Noah Te Stroete
Can you give an example in "real time" how this would look in your daily life activities and decisions? — schopenhauer1
It sounds like you’re on autopilot a lot of the time. I’m not like that. I don’t do much. I think it’s epigenetics. Good nature and good nurture. — Noah Te Stroete
If determinism is true, then what would be the use of consciousness? — Noah Te Stroete
Same question to you then. What is the evolutionary use of consciousness? — Noah Te Stroete
Good epigenetics implies good nature and good nurture. “Good” here means to me that which is valued by society. You seem more productive than me. — Noah Te Stroete
I think you and I have a different understanding about how evolution works. — T Clark
I'm have no reason to believe that's true and I'm not sure I understand its relevance to this discussion. — T Clark
Well, if you mean that some traits are “evolutionary riders” that weren’t specifically selected for, then no, I don’t think we understand differently. Was consciousness an evolutionary rider that came along with something else that made us more successful at procreating? — Noah Te Stroete
It seems likely that consciousness has benefits. I just think people put too much emphasis on it because it's at the center of their sense of who they are. — T Clark
Usually, I eat lunch at sometime between noon and 1:00 pm, depending on my schedule. It's pretty automatic, habitual. It's not really driven by hunger and I generally eat the same sorts of things. Then sometimes, when I haven't eaten in a while or if I've been doing physical work, I get this feeling rising up, hunger. And I'm not just hungry, I'm often hungry for something specific, sometimes unusual. Pickles. Olives. Hummus. Then when I eat, there's a great feeling of satisfaction when I eat. — T Clark
Sleep 10 hours, breakfast, check computer stuff, play expert bridge tournament, lunch, play, go places, later, write books and make videos, then play, hang out. That's what the Cosmos does. — PoeticUniverse
So, as an individual making these decisions- internally, what goes through your mind that makes you actually do these activities? — schopenhauer1
What possible benefit could it have if we’re all on autopilot (unconscious motivations) — Noah Te Stroete
Our unconscious is as much us as our consciousness is. Actually, more. Just because it's not conscious doesn't mean we're not aware, that we're not responsible for what we do. Most of what we are is not conscious. This is the fundamental insight of psychology. It's what Freud gave us. — T Clark
So you wake up and get out of bed, do some stuff which you say is habitual (brush teeth, etc.), and then do some "stuff" which you decide you want to do. Where do these decisions well up from? What is the cause? Is there a cause? How do you structure the liquid fray of all possibilities into some actual activity? — schopenhauer1
That does not include spoiling other people's fun. Life's requirements and responsibilities are simply the mechanics of the problem of how to get some more fun. Moralists find this attitude extremely disturbing. Surely life cannot be that simple. — Drazjan
What makes you do any particular activity throughout your daily life? — schopenhauer1
So, as an individual making these decisions- internally, what goes through your mind that makes you actually do these activities? — schopenhauer1
how old are you exactly? Three years of age? Four? That's the age when the "why" questions never stop. — god must be atheist
Anyway, back to your question. The feelings well up from inside me, where all my feelings come from. From nowhere. Not really nowhere. From the part of me that is not readily accessible to my self-awareness, although I am aware of the feelings themselves. In the cases when my heart and mind are working right, they arise directly from the motivation. The motivation and the act are the same thing. What eastern types call acting without acting. No reflection. If things aren't working right, it's a jumble of desire pushing for action counteracted by fear or conscious thought pushing back. Indecision, anxiety.
I know we're talking about motivation and this isn't the same thing, but maybe it will give a taste of what I'm talking about - Where do the words come from? In a sense, the words create consciousness, are consciousness, but their creation, for me at least, is not a conscious act. There is no voice in my head that says, write "The," write "dog," write "pissed," write "on," write "Baden's," write "foot." Again, they bubble up from inside. I sit at my computer and they pour out onto the screen. Whole thoughts, paragraphs, poems, ideas, stories come in chunks or all in one piece, often accompanied by visual images, feelings, moods. Then my fingers move and they show up in front of me. The words write themselves. Sometimes I'm amazed at what I've written. Where the hell did that come from? This is a common experience, not just for me. Again, acting without acting, writing without writing. — T Clark
Same question to you then. What is the evolutionary use of consciousness? — Noah Te Stroete
Ok, but what made you write in the first place as opposed to something else? Where does your goal and then decision to act on the goal come from? — schopenhauer1
There is no problem with the first explanation as far as I can tell because it disconnects consciousness and material effects completely but it doesn't explain what consciosness is or what gives rise to it. The second explanation explains consciousness right off the bat but it doesn't explain why the material world is so consistent. They both techinically have no logical problems, its just which you find more believable: That the material world exists and out of it results a completely useless consciousness while all decisions are made by said material world (they're not really decisions) or that consciousness is the basis for every decision ever but then everything is conscious. — khaled
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