Is watching a film with subtitles a drastically different experience from watching one in a language that you already understand? Will I never really get Jean-Luc Godard? Even if I become fluent in French, is the experience of watching a French film at all the same? — thewonder

Some of my favorite movies have subtitles. I'd much rather see subtitles than hear dubbing. We visited my brother, who was living in France back in the late 1980s. We watched a French dubbed version of "SOS Fantomes" (Ghostbusters). It wasn't hard to follow since I'd seen it, but I can't imagine it being as funny with a voice other than Bill Murry's.

I have always wondered something similar to what you are asking about when reading translations. It seems to me that faithfully translating a book would take as much skill as writing it in the first place.

Dubbed films are ridiculous. I'd much rather read the subtitles. I can't even stand dubbed anime. It's only tolerable in karate films.

Translations are especially troubling. What becomes of the text when you translate it? How will anyone know that you have been faithful? Can a person truly be faithful at all? By translating the text, you always, to some degree, rewrite it. Writing is so particular. It seems like everyone is just lost in that communication is only ever partially understood.

The nuance of language may be lost in the translation of subtitles, but that's the price you pay. I have no trouble with subtitles.

I like them as well. I just wonder if I haven't added another layer of abstraction to the experience. You have to read the film as you watch it. I actually think that people who watch films with subtitles may be better able to analyze them, but that some of the emotive experience is ultimately lost. The fourth wall is all too present when watching films with subtitles. It's not just the nuances that are lost, I think that experience actually radically differs.

Yes, it's a totally different experience. For one, you're staring at the words half the time, not the picture.

But specifically regarding the language, there are thousands of little linguistic phrases and witticisms that just don't translate.

Example:
Hard enough to translate something like "It's like the pot calling the kettle black." This a foreigner might be able to figure out after a moment's thought. But then you have native speakers so used to the phrase, they play around with it, like "Hey Pot! Meet Kettle" which couldn't make much sense to a foreigner who's unaware of the original quip.

Also, if you're not a speaker of the language, you may not understand the cultural references. For example, in German (my second language) we say something is 08/15 if it is common, standard, and often not very exciting. To understand, you'd have to know that the standard gun used by German soldiers in WW1 was an MG 08/15, and it crept into the colloquial from there.

So, I think watching something even as a fluent non-native might lead you to miss out on some things, if you're not also fluent in the culture.

But, with a really good movie, you're only going to miss out on a very tiny percentage of the overall experience that way, and I don't think it should cause anyone to stop watching foreign films they enjoy!

In some European countries, so I have heard, there are "dubbing stars" -- people whose dubbing performances have a following.

I like to see foreign films; subtitles are part of the experience. However, there are methods of superimposing subtitles on a film that work better than others. White subtitles against a light background, especially a visually active light background, might as well not be there.

It is true that one misses part of the actual film in the effort to quickly grasp the meaning of the film. However, it depends on how fast the dialog is, and how much dialog there one must catch

The best way to see film is in a real theater with an audience which is paying attention. That's true for foreign films, too. Fortunately, one can rent films and watch them on a small screen, and then one can stop the film, or back up if one needs to re-read the subtitle. This is best done by yourself. Other people will begin attacking you for interrupting the film when they didn't feel a need to reread anything.

Perhaps more film directors should do what Woody Allen did irreverently in What's Up Tiger Lily?

I just let the lines go. I'd rather miss a line than disrupt the action. I can keep up with most anything, though. Sometimes I feel like I should watch films with my reading glasses. My eyes can get a bit tired if there is too much dialogue.

I had never heard of that Woody Allen film before. That's pretty out there.

I too, tend to speed-read the subtitles as the acting says so much than script-writing. I do not speak anything other than English, but I have always been interested in language, so I know enough words in French, Spanish and Italian to catch the gist of a convesation. In addition to the art of the production, I use the dialogue to advance my understanding of the language. It develops quick ears. In English, I can usually place a dialect.

I think the real problem is taking a film out of its intended context. For most things, I assume you can translate relatively well, but art is intertwined with the culture of the artist. Problems and outlooks that are common in one place could be entirely foreign in another, and so marketing and translation teams often change names and sometimes plot elements. I assume this also isn't much of a problem for most films, but in films where this is an issue, it certainly is an issue.

でもあります。

I think no amount of learning can ever get us to the meanings the art forms (movies included) the creator(s) wants us to experience. This is not just about foreign-language creations but also includes stuff in our own first languages whatever it may be.

The reason is simple. The art forms are usually fully immersed in the culture of its birth. To grasp their true and complete meaning, ergo to the enjoy and understand them, requires knowledge of fashion, philosophy, math, you-name-it, of the period involved. Knowledge vast enough that no one can achieve it. Thus no matter how much of a movie/art buff you are you can never grasp the complete content of an instance of the art forms.

Language stands out as the most obvious hurdle to comprehension in movies because visual data is not alien enough. Everyone of us are familiar with most eye-related content in movies. There are mountains, roads, sunsets, men, women, children, etc - very familiar objects. Language however is sufficiently distinct to cause complete unintelligibility to a foreign audience. Add to that what I just said about their cultural immersion and comprehension is literally impossible.

Subtitles, if cleverly done, do manage to get across an acceptable portion of the true meaning but capturing the full significance of what is being said is simply beyond the scope of translators. There's just too many extra-linguistic, cultural or other allusions, for translations, which ignore these devices almost completely except when a happy coincidence occurs, to capture the true meaning of dialogues. I guess subtitles are easier, not better, than learning a foreign language to enjoy a movie.