Some people (i.e. Searle) associate consciousness, in particular, with a linguistic capability having an irreducibly semantic component. Or at least, they associate lack of (or failure to demonstrate) consciousness with a reduction of semantics to syntax. (As in the Chinese Room.)
This particular association (i.e. consciousness <---> genuine semantics) seems a useful one, to me. What about you? — bongo fury
Things were meaningful to us long before we became aware of it. — creativesoul
I guess that nicely expresses denial of the association I proposed? (Maybe so. Not looking for a fight here. Just clarification.) — bongo fury
Yes. I'm denying the characterization of consciousness as 'genuine semantics'. — creativesoul
Cool. We know where we stand. — bongo fury
Is meaningful language use proof of consciousness? Certainly. I'm guessing that that is what Searle's Chinese Room is all about(what exactly counts as meaningful language use). Is it required for consciousness in it's most simplistic manifestation(s)? I think not. — creativesoul
...maybe worth bringing up after all. — bongo fury
I think our concerns are very similar... — bongo fury
You writing all this down? — creativesoul
All meaning is attributed solely by virtue of drawing mental correlations, associations, and/or connections between different things. — creativesoul
How would you explain what "Quantity" or "Shape" is to someone? I don't think you can. I think there are concepts that us humans just "start off" with like shapes, quantities, space, time that cannot be represented by anything more basic. Just think about it. If you define A using concepts B, C and D and proceed to define those using their own different concepts etc etc you'd never be done defining things. Nothing would make sense, because everything just has an infinitely long definition. There has to be a set of concepts you just "know" that you use to define others. — khaled
Seems like consciousness always appears as a feature of a system, within which it functions. This theory is known as distributed cognition (I've read the term 'embedded cognition' also). — Pantagruel
I suspect the "you can't even step into the same river once" quip was somebody's attempt to top Heraclitus. — Bitter Crank
All meaning is attributed solely by virtue of drawing mental correlations, associations, and/or connections between different things.
— creativesoul
Agreed. But then, the same old problem. Conscious (mental correlations), or unconscious? — bongo fury
I'm suggesting, conscious where the meaning is genuine, in the sense of not reducing, like the light-heat connection for the thermostat, or the salivation-bell connection for Pavlov's dog, to syntax. (You don't like widening linguistic terminology to symbolic functioning in general, I do. That difference between us is negotiable, I expect.)
- Does consciousness = Awareness ?
- Does consciousness = Attention ?
- Does consciousness = Both ? or Something else ? — Basko
Brains all work pretty much alike, so it s quite relevant to our brains. — Bitter Crank
it makes no sense whatsoever to talk about any meaningful connection/association/correlation for a thermostat. — creativesoul
When we're discussing consciousness, the discourse needs to include not only the candidate(creature), but also what *exactly* the candidate is conscious/aware of, and/or attentive towards? — creativesoul
Your conscious mind did not do much of the work composing your OP, just as my conscious mind is mostly an observer watching the words come off my fingertips. — Bitter Crank
Does consciousness equal:
Awareness?
Attention?
Experiencing?
Thoughts/mental ongoings?
Belief?
Reasoning?
Meaning?
Thoughts about thoughts?
Mental correlations?
Mental associations?
Mental connections?
Expectation?
Fear?
Does any of these do the trick? Or can all of them be unconscious?
I suspect they all can, on any definitions plausibly grounded in common usage. (Fear, maybe not yet, but soon, when we start attributing it to some gratuitously cute robot.) — bongo fury
So, taking the bull by the horns, what distinguishes, for example, conscious meaning from unconscious meaning... — bongo fury
Thanks for sketching your approach to that question, and thanks for looking at mine! — bongo fury
The "invisible real me" projects the shadow puppet because it is just very useful to have a business rep out front which can deal with other business reps, which are also 'out front'. — Bitter Crank
Consciousness : Quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself — Basko
The "real me", out of sight, busy doing god knows what behind the screen — Bitter Crank
it makes no sense whatsoever to talk about any meaningful connection/association/correlation for a thermostat.
— creativesoul
Well, exactly. That's why I'm calling it mere syntax. We agree on much, as I keep saying. — bongo fury
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