The state in which I live just legalized assisted suicide. This makes it legal to die if one is terminally ill with six months left to live.

If this was extended to those who are depressed or who just don't want to live anymore, would you take it?

For me at least, as much as I generally find life annoying and painful, I nevertheless have a strong instinct to survive, to create, to do. I don't want to die. Suicide fantasy has been a recurrent theme in my thought but whenever I actually seriously consider dying, there is something that keeps me back. Something beyond just primal instinct, I think.

Perhaps life is bad but not bad enough to warrant suicide, not enough to get a eliminate the capacity to derive a decent amount of enjoyment out of it. We may not gain anything in life but it sure as hell is difficult to act as if this is the case. At least by surviving we maximize irony.

Thoughts?

The will to survive.
1) People usually are attached to their individual egos once alive.
2) It is more of an escape hatch ideation
3) Philosophical Pessimism can be a philosophy of consolation

@Bitter Crank

The harm of your organization or country being run by an incompetent or wrong-headed leader.

Bring out your harms!

Please delete

That's a lot of bells, bells, bells!

Have any fresh harms @OglopTo? You had some good ones...
@csalisbury?
@Hanover?
@darthbarracuda?
@dukkha?
@Bitter Crank?

How about the harm of spoiled-brat/coddled/fragile millennials who don't reason very well, who are kind of paranoid, and who have a victim mentality not being able to handle that they didn't get their way, so they throw a tantrum (er, uh "protest")?

How about the harm of spoiled-brat/coddled/fragile millennials who don't reason very well, who are kind of paranoid, and who have a victim mentality not being able to handle that they didn't get their way, so they throw a tantrum (er, uh "protest")? — Terrapin Station

So the harm of an internet troll?

A lot of them are trolls, I suppose.

A lot of them are trolls, I suppose. — Terrapin Station

Do you always mix up your pronouns? Maybe that is what Pink Floyd meant by "Us and Them".

There was no "mix up" there.

There was no "mix up" there. — Terrapin Station

So you are trying to make an actual philosophical point or a dig at the OP? But by doing this, I ironically just get sucked into your troll hole, so I'm sort of harming myself here.. but go on and prattle your invective :-}

I don't really see this thread as one that makes any sort of philosophical point. (And I dont think there's anything wrong with that, by the way--it's fine that we have a thread that doesn't make a philosophical point, but that's related in some way to philosophical views that people do have.)

You were asking people to list "harms." I was listing one in my opinion. Part of the point of me doing so is to stress that different people have different opinions of what counts as harms.

You were asking people to list "harms." I was listing one in my opinion. Part of the point of me doing so is to stress that different people have different opinions of what counts as harms. — Terrapin Station

See couldn't you have said that from the beginning instead of wrapping it in troll-speak? That's a much better place to start to have a discussion or debate.

I expect this in general, but particularly on a philosophy message board, I expect people to be able to think for themselves a bit, to be able to make deductions and inferences and abductions and so on.

I expect this in general, but particularly on a philosophy message board, I expect people to be able to think for themselves a bit, to be able to make deductions and inferences and abductions and so on. — Terrapin Station

No I knew what you meant from your original posting..but my point was did you have to come out swinging? I guess I may have misinterpreted this.. The whole possible misunderstanding is, did you aim that quote directly towards me or were you trying to vent about something in general?

But more generally, even if that was not meant to be aimed at me, just realize that to me, trolling can mean that you are trying to provoke a street brawl rather than keep it at a more respectful fencing match (though I don't know much about fencing it seems more coordinated and structured).. If you what you say clearly going to provoke the other guy to want to punch your (metaphorical) face, how is that adding to the philosophical discourse? The immediate emotional response attached to the inciting comment seems to be out of inciting emotional shouting matches rather than advancing any particular idea.

No, it wasn't at all aimed at you. It was basically a response to "The harm of your organization or country being run by an incompetent or wrong-headed leader. "

That's one point of view. Mine is another.

That's one point of view. Mine is another. — Terrapin Station

OHH.. Ok, now I clearly see where you were going.. It was still meant to be inciting.. but I see the context. Why didn't you just quote the comment so it was not seen as a general rant but aimed at a particular previous comment?

Edit: I see you did that but you didn't quote it.. Ok.. now I see where you are going.

It wasn't meant to be inciting either. That's my honest opinion of the majority of the folks protesting in the last 24 hours. I can see how it would upset some of them, of course, but I'm not going to coddle them more--since that's a large part of their problem--by changing the language of my opinion just because it might upset some of them. They're not changing how they're expressing themselves just because that might upset some people with different viewpoints than the one's they're expressing (and they shouldn't in my opinion).

Nothing much that I seriously considered recently.

Usually, I think of the tediousness of daily life and seeming insignificance and meaninglessness of it all especially when I'm overwhelmed with so much urgent things-to-do, usually work related.

Usually, I think of the tediousness of daily life and seeming insignificance and meaninglessness of it all especially when I'm overwhelmed with so much urgent things-to-do, usually work related. — OglopTo

Some people say work gives life meaning because it provides a direction and "something" for them to put their attention on.

The thinking might go that assuming that eventually all forms of entertainment will get exhausted if that is all they do, people will actually "miss" forced routine of this and that task because it keeps their own mind from wandering about the ennui of existence itself. It gives structure because it allows the brain to be "caught up"... and what does a creature with excess consciousness do but get "caught up" so that it cannot think about its own situation of instrumentality, angst, etc.

Meanwhile of course, the getting "caught up" causes stress, anxieties, and its own spin off harms. Perhaps these spin off harms might be weighed against the harm of being left to our own existential contemplation? Thus, people's attitude towards work is that it gives them "meaning" while causing in some cases immense stress.

I actually previously entertained the thought that the 'higher ups' knew what they were doing when they designed the 8-hour + travel + lunch time work day, 5-day work week: it provided the right amount of distraction for essentially all of your waking hour, with enough stress and anxiety leftover that you wouldn't have enough remaining energy to use your brain for about anything else but leisure during the weekends and holidays.

People could be much more dangerous if allowed to be idle for long periods of time.

being nagged for lists of harms

Next time let's all do 5 syllables
antinatalist haikus, 7 syllables
schopenhauer 2. 5 syllables

Internet troll holes
Hell's bells calling home sick souls
antinatalists

Fucking Autumn leaves!
Brown red yellow sickly beige:
Burn baby, burn them all.

Die my darling, croak.
get it over with! Don't hope.
Deep in earth, dead bloke.

Dove to earth then splat
Meow come the kitty cats
for kidneys and brains.

Was not, is not, he.
Absent from eternity.
Dead infinity.

Those are very good haikus!
See, you have good thoughts to share
Let me think about it.

I always feel bad when I argue for pessimism, unless I have an desire to change people's actions for what I perceive to be the better (ethics). Like, unless something productive is going to come from me presenting pessimism, I don't really feel comfortable intentionally trying to break people's spells of optimism. Unless there is something wrong with living a life unaware or uncaring of the pessimistic point, then arguing for pessimism only increases the total amount of suffering in the world. It's less about doing something productive and more about expressing oneself through pessimism, to the annoyance of others.

The thing about pessimism is that it is probably one of the easiest philosophies to argue for, yet one of the hardest philosophies to accept.

I actually previously entertained the thought that the 'higher ups' knew what they were doing when they designed the 8-hour + travel + lunch time work day, 5-day work week: it provided the right amount of distraction for essentially all of your waking hour, with enough stress and anxiety leftover that you wouldn't have enough remaining energy to use your brain for about anything else but leisure during the weekends and holidays.

People could be much more dangerous if allowed to be idle for long periods of time. — OglopTo

I think people might ask, "Well, what would people do in perpetual idleness?". And there is the existential dilemma many people do not want to face. People want a structure to their life perhaps to keep themselves from mulling over larger questions?

It's less about doing something productive and more about expressing oneself through pessimism, to the annoyance of others. — darthbarracuda

I see, so I should just shut up you are saying. Don't take it so seriously darthy! It partially meant to let people vent if they want..like a shoutbox but for shit we don't like.

I think pessimism can be productive as a philosophy of consolation. It can be a possible alternative to "pick yourself up by the bootstrap" theories. The inherent worth of the individual's suffering is taken into account rather than self-regulating phrases to ensure people do not get too upset by circumstances (by as you said before) "blaming the victim". Anyways, everyone has harms.. some similar, some more nuanced and individual.. It is quite alright to air those to others and find some solace in it.

Besides being a consolation, it may provide perspective on existence itself. Rather than take it as "this is what must be", it provides the individual a way to look at existence as a whole. By questioning the foundations of the human enterprise itself, it lets us look at what is important and what is justified. It allows us to look at how our own psychological mechanisms work to create the structure needed for goals, how it is contingent harms play a role, and confronts the situatedness of being thrown in a world where we are experiencing the pendulum between survival through cultural upkeep and maintenance, and turning boredom into entertainment goal-seeking. All this structural/necessary harm in the background while being harmed by contingent factors along the way.. All the things listed here for example.

Believe it or not, there can be a giddyness to pessimism.. To knowing we are all in the same boat, that it is all part of a similar structure. I dare say, there may be a joy and connectedness in pessimism.

The thing about pessimism is that it is probably one of the easiest philosophies to argue for, yet one of the hardest philosophies to accept. — darthbarracuda

You'd have to explain that. It sounds like you have many things to say in regards to arguing for pessimism but no one to hear it.. You always have me, dark solitary biting fish. Just don't bite me too much, as is your nature or I'll tear you up like a hapless salmon that is eaten by the grizzly in the picture :).