Tony Blair talking sense ? Will Corbyn listen ?

Blair said Boris Johnson wanted an early election because it would be a “trap” for Labour. Rather than voting for an early election, MPs should insist on a referendum, he said:

If parliament cannot agree, then the right way to consult the people is not through a general election but through a referendum.

That means, as MPs from different parties have agreed, that there should not be a motion of no confidence but rather legislation preventing no deal.

Should the government seek an election, it should be refused in favour of a referendum.

It is counter-intuitive for opposition parties to refuse an election. But in this exceptional case, it is vital they do so as a matter of principle, until Brexit is resolved.

Brexit is an issue which stands on its own, was originally decided on its own and should be reconsidered on its own.

The Brexiteers are laying a trap, to seem as if pushed into an election, whilst actively preparing for one.

Blair said Jeremy Corbyn’s unpopularity would make an election more appealing to Johnson.

[The Brexiters] know there are two issues in British politics not one: Brexit; and the Corbyn leadership.

It is the interplay between these two issues that has shaped and defined British politics over the past 3-4 years.

Boris Johnson knows that if no deal Brexit stands on its own as a proposition, it might well fail. But if he mixes up the Brexit question with the Corbyn question in a general election, he could succeed, despite a majority being against a no deal Brexit, because some may fear a Corbyn premiership more. — Live feed from Guardian

tell you what, people have been comparing Johnson to Trump, but Johnson is a hellava lot smarter than Trump (not that it says much). But he's machivelian compared to The Donald, who thrashes about like the Tin Man on Wizard of Oz.

Trump and Boris both lie.
They both want a hard Brexit.
They have a lot in common. Narcissistic, self-serving, etc., etc...
But Boris went to Eton and can talk fluent Latin as well as bullshit.

Trump talked up the prospects for a US-UK trade agreement when the two men met face to face in Biarritz on Sunday, for the first time since Johnson became prime minister.

The US president said they would sign a “very big trade deal, bigger than we’ve ever had,” once the UK is freed from the “anchor” of the EU around its “ankle”.

Asked what his advice was for Brexit, the president said: “He [Johnson] needs no advice. He is the right man for the job.” Johnson said Trump was “on message there”. — Heather Stewart

They both make me wanna :vomit:

I’m not saying anything good about Boris, I think he’s a phony. But he’s clever in a way Trump isn’t. But I’ve always thought Brexit a disaster.

Comparing ways of being clever between psychopathic leaders is interesting up to a point.
What matters is the outcome when the right-wing, regressive hard nuts unite as one.
It gets a little terrifying.
I should switch off now and go meditate...or do something sparkly :sparkle:

Agreed, Rebecca Long Bailey has just said that the position of the Labour Party is that stopping a no deal Brexit comes before any priority for a general election. They do know about the elephant trap and that Johnson will thrash about for any means of preventing parliament acting. This might include fooling the opposition into helping him call a general election( he needs a two thirds majority in the house to call the election) which would be held before 31st of October and then changing the date to after that date further down the line. Or any number of distractions to delay it until beyond that date. Ensuring a no deal Brexit with no debate, or consent from parliament.

It looks as though Johnson is already grasping at straws and sinking into chaos.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49549960

General election on its way. Who is everyone voting for?

I am in a safe Tory seat unfortunately and will vote for the remain alliance, which ever party represents this.

As @Punshhh pointed out, Boris can't have his erection unless Labour agree. So, it ain't that simple.

Who is everyone voting for? — Evil

Ben Bradshaw.

Boris can't have his erection unless Labour agree. So, it ain't that simple — Baden

the other really confusing thing is that it's not going to be a poll on Brexit per se. I mean, it's not a matter of voting for one side that supports Brexit, and another side that opposes it. And also, that Corbyn is a misguided idealist (at best) whom many reasonable voters would never vote for (as Tony Blair is saying.)

and Nigel Faarooq?

A significantly higher percentage of voters voted for Corbyn in his last election than voted for Blair in his. In fact, Corbyn got one of the highest vote shares for Labour in modern times. So, that's just typical anti-Corbyn hype.

And also, that Corbyn is a misguided idealist (at best) — Wayfarer

On what basis? Which policies of his are misguided and why?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

Hm, he must be unelectable then.

on what basis? Which policies of his are misguided and why? — Baden

the press coverage here in Aus has been generally critical. He's been depicted as being 'too far to the left to be electable'. And Blair has been hyper-critical of Corbyn, although I don't know how much that means. But I do note from Wikipedia that in 2017 'Labour made a net gain of 30 seats with 40.0% (its highest vote share since 2001 and the first time the party had gained seats since 1997). This was the closest result between the two major parties since February 1974.' So - let's see. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that if an election was called Labor might win it, but what that means for Brexit is still anyone's guess.

Brexit per se. I mean, it's not a matter of voting for one side that supports Brexit, and another side that opposes it

Yes, Johnson wants to give the electorate a choice between a hard Brexit with the Tory's and a disastrous Corbyn government (economically) which will also keep us in the EU, or half in half out. This sneaks a hard Brexit through under the fear of Marxist Labour policies. Also it drains support from the Brexit party, pushing the Tory's over the line.

Labour won't agree to an election until a further extension is agreed with the EU (until 1st Jan'), they realise that if Johnson calls for an election this week and they don't support it , Johnson is left helpless with no way to turn, the emperor has no clothes.

let's hope they do realise and aren't fond of gambling.

I'd put it this way, the issue is not Labour's sudden unelectability, it's the Lib Dem's sudden electability. So, the remain vote is split while Johnson has been (very) busy unsplitting the anti-remain vote by stealing Farage's thunder. This is critical in a first-past-the-post system. The winner takes all essentially and that dynamic explains the bulk of what's going on here.

Well, from what I've been reading today - again, I'm in Aus, so a bit ahead in terms of timezone - Britain's Tuesday-Wednesday look like being momentous.

the press coverage here in Aus has been generally critical. — Wayfarer

As has the press coverage in the UK. The reality though is that Corbyn is not remotely radical, and has not proposed a single policy that goes beyond what has already been implemented in the country and then dismantled. Some public housing, a national railway and power system, a national post, a national health service, and some workers' rights. It's all so mainstream that only Americans and propagandists would even call it unusual.

Yes, which would explain why, rather than mentioning these 'radical policies', using the bogeyman of Marxism is generally the preferred method of attempting to discredit him.

Marxism is generally the preferred method of attempting to discredit him. — Baden

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/09/02/the-media-goes-into-attack-corbyn-mode-ahead-of-a-possible-snap-election-his-response-is-sublime/?fbclid=IwAR0Aebd8WD-BxJTydFTMmEqDTn6Q-K9NAbyyASFrluBX0Q7zal0EkZvszcA

Lol @theFT. Shock/horror! Don't vote Labour because they want to give you stuff!

Other people’s stuff....

What other people?

Other taxpayers - you know, you, me, whoever it is who originates 'the stuff' that Labour 'gives'. Anyway - off topic, that's political philosophy. I think, all things considered, if I were a Brit, and I thought voting Labor would prevent (a no-deal) Brexit, then I wouldn't have a moment's hesitation.

Oh look, a neoliberal in the wild.

What's 'ours' in terms of resources is a gift of a society that mostly functions on the backs of ordinary workers, without whom we'd all be sucking on wild berries and being eaten by bears. But yes, let's not go there here.

But yes, let's not go there here. — Baden

Let's go thither hither instead.