In another thread, a claim was made that we are entitled to have children. Are we? This is a commonly believed idea, whether stated in these terms or not. But is it well-justified? — petrichor
I just looked it up in the dictionary. Basically it says that entitlements are rights. And if I look up rights, basically it says they are entitlements. Each is even listed as a synonym of the other. Not very helpful! — petrichor
Considering the amount of harm done to children and their environment by bad parenting, I don't think it stands to reason that every one should be having children as they desire. — Tzeentch
However, forbidding people from reproducing is just a horribly impractical thing, and enforcing such regulations would almost inevitably end with some draconian methods. — Tzeentch
I already made clear my reason for asking you what rights are. — petrichor
I don't think you can justify your claim that we are entitled to have children. — petrichor
You accused someone else of not understanding entitlement. — petrichor
I suspect that you don't understand what you're accusing that person of not understanding. — petrichor
Just a flat assertion that we have a right to X and then a "defense" of that claim by just accusing people of not understanding rights is not going to fly in philosophy circles. — petrichor
Isn't the question of whether or not we should have a right or entitlement to reproduce answered by the question of whether or not all people should be having children? ... — Tzeentch
Forget it. I thought there was an opportunity to do some actually philosophy here. But it seems you aren't interested in that. — petrichor
Haven't you ever read Plato? I was trying to draw you into something a bit like a Socratic dialogue, my role being that of gadfly. You clearly don't want to examine your beliefs. And that's fine. I'll go play elsewhere. — petrichor
What if we're not realists on rights? — Terrapin Station
When we talk about rights, at least in the American context, there is the claim that they are endowed by our Creator, which is a religious reference. Atheists also believe we have all sorts of rights, but I think it's harder for them to establish a basis for them. — Hanover
What of it? I'm not a realist on rights, and I'm the one who made the claim. There's no contradiction there because obviously as an ethical anti-realist, I abide by an interpretation of rights consistent with that stance. — S
Atheists can easily appeal to the moral sentiment common to us all. — S
It definitely isn't, because those whose arguable justification depends on the existence of a Creator have the infinitely harder task of first establishing the existence of a Creator.
Atheists can easily appeal to the moral sentiment common to us all. — S
What of it? I'm not a realist on rights, and I'm the one who made the claim. There's no contradiction there because obviously as an ethical anti-realist, I abide by an interpretation of rights consistent with that stance. — S
I'm confused that the thread got merged, especially when the other thread specified that he didn't want to get into the typical antinatalist stuff. — Terrapin Station
I'm confused that the thread got merged, especially when the other thread specified that he didn't want to get into the typical antinatalist stuff. — Terrapin Station
I asked him about rights realism because he was framing his discussion in terms of rights. — Terrapin Station
Right. The typical anti-natalist stuff always involves people explaining why they think that people are entitled to have children, whereas his discussion involves people explaining why they think that people are entitled to have children. — S
<----definitely not what I'd be doing, but I'm not a rah-rah conformist like you. :-p — Terrapin Station
There isn't a universal cross-cultural moral sentiment. — Hanover
Regardless, if you leave to the democracy what rights one should have, then you're not talking about rights in the inalienable sense, but you're just talking only about current public sentiment. The idea behind rights (as I see it at least) is that there are certain things every person should have regardless of the opinions of others. — Hanover
If I have the right to free speech, that means that no government can take it from me. I own it, even if all the population thinks I'm undeserving. It's the distinction between relative and absolute, and you can't have an absolute if it rests in something that is dependent upon the culture, the time, or the idiosyncrasies of the current population pool. — Hanover
On the other hand, if the right is rooted in something immutable, then the universe must revolve around it, and not vice versa. — Hanover
But to your point, there is no proving God's existence, so if one cannot hold to such a belief, one cannot hold to a belief in rights. — Hanover
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