Good point. I don't really think I'd say introspection is a way of thinking, but maybe I should have said that it is a good way of gaining knowledge. — T Clark
These observations will be in memory, not in the now. We have to access them. Place them in contexts, all this requiring all sorts of intuitive checking where we 'go inside' as it were and check these and their placement, similarity, relevance. We cannot stay just on the surface so to speak with the words.Can one reason from observation independent of introspection?
I think the words introspection and rationality are useful and each focus on different aspects of mind and its processes. — Coben
One can just notice the contents of our minds. — Coben
I would say that introspection is more independent of rationality then rationality is independent of introspection. — Coben
Sit and mull with eyes closed. Without trying to draw a conclusion or mount an argument or analyze. — Coben
I could take out mull. And I did hesitate to include it. I think reasoning/rationality includes an attempt to put assertions in a logical arrangement with conclusions. I don't think I am always doing that when I introspect. I think we have non-rational stretches of activity and without the goal of using even these in some later rational argument. For me, I should add, just for context: I don't consider non-rational the same as irrational, which includes, generally the pejorative. I am in fact a big fan of non-rational processes - and consider them also part of the foundation of rational ones, but, as I am arguing here, not always are experienced as part of or used for that purpose........is absolutely the way the average human seems to do things. Daydreaming. Flights of fancy. That is what we think introspection to be, yes. Without reasoning or self-contained argument. I submit this is not what’s happening at all. Keyword: mull. To mull is to examine relations. And we’re right back where we started. — Mww
Introspection involves rationality, for sure, it's rationality that doesn't necessarily involve introspection. — Judaka
Rationality without introspection becomes something like ungrounded theorycrafting when it comes to understanding people and the systems that involve people. — Judaka
Introspection is a type of reflection, which is a type of problem-solving, not a type of knowledge. — Galuchat
Why not depend on both?
Seems to me they are different types of problem-solving tools.
Introspection examines mental events.
Reason creates and/or develops arguments. — Galuchat
Mental faculties don't have credibility, people do. — Galuchat
Ratiocination without introspection: I'd love to see an example of that. You'd not be able to notice your own internal evaluations of the semantics of the terms in your argument. You'd not be able to notice the 'there, I these premises seem correct' quale. You'd have no way of noticing if it seemed right to you that your argument was sound. And so on. — Coben
Introspection without ratiocination: that could lead to knowledge via intuition. You might have a sudden insight, with some black boxed process leading to it. — Coben
Even self-knowledge, I think, is better understood in conjunction with other ways of gaining knowledge. Not that you could have self-knowledge without introspection, but rather that speaking to others -- be it friends or priests or therapists -- helps one to gain self-knowledge better than introspection alone. — Moliere
All that being said I do agree that introspection can be valuable. I also think that we can get a bit too caught up in ourselves by introspecting, though perhaps you'd call that something other than introspection. — Moliere
When we reason we are repeatedly checking our arguement. This means checking the words we use, their semantics, the scope of the premises and so on. This requires (no doubt quick) dips into introspection. Does it feel right? Does that seem justified? We mull, and then wait for a quale of 'that is fair' 'that makes sense' 'that follows'. Small moments of feeling that it makes sense. — Coben
Can one reason from observation independent of introspection?
Introspection is more a mode, or kind, of rationality, rather than a separation from it. — Mww
My point was the mentioning your occupation was irrelevant to the idea you were putting forward. — rlclauer
In my opinion, the only reason you mentioned it is because you take great pride in the fact that you are an engineer, and not part of the unwashed masses. — rlclauer
I think reasoning/rationality includes an attempt to put assertions in a logical arrangement with conclusions. — Coben
I don't think I am always doing that when I introspect. — Coben
Introspection is a mode of observation — T Clark
Or do you think observation is a rational process? — T Clark
First you observe, then you think about what you've seen. — T Clark
Can one reason from observation independent of introspection? Yes, I think we can. — T Clark
Introspection is a mode of observation — T Clark
But I worry one can get lost in it, almost to the point of solipsism. Like the Jourdain’s paradox, it is almost inevitable that introspection becomes self-referential and circular. — NOS4A2
In my experience, all the ways of gaining knowledge are generally working together all the time. In my experience a good therapist or a friend who knows you well helps you improve your self-awareness, make your introspection more effective. — T Clark
Funny. I would say the same thing about rationality. Just look at all the people who tangle themselves up with their words here on the forum and elsewhere. I can't deny I've done it myself. — T Clark
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