Doesn’t matter if I agree with your terminology or not. Even so, if you don’t think reason, consciousness, plays any part in the perception of your internal states, first, what part do they play other than that, and second, what does play a part in the perception of your internal states. — Mww
Imagine one of your favorite foods - for me it's, let's say, a nice creamy fish chowder. I picture the bowl. Imagine the smell and the feel of it on my tongue - the warmth, the flavor, the feel of the chunks of haddock in my mouth. Don't label it, put it into words, think about it. Just experience it. That is non-rational. — T Clark
It is possible to know, or at least experience, how you know what you know. — T Clark
You share your subjectivity with people all the time. — T Clark
Of course, but possibility can only be shown theoretically. It is impossible for any theory to attain to an empirical proof. We don’t KNOW how we think. We don’t even KNOW if it’s thinking we’re doing. We just call it that because we don’t know what it really is, and just like any good theory, all it has to do is be internally consistent and non-contradictory with itself, which in turn can serve as no more than a mere logical justification. — Mww
Can you give an example of something the knowledge of which is impossible? — T Clark
that's exactly what it is. Imagination. — T Clark
I can observe myself imagining ...... — T Clark
" But perhaps we can pinpoint the nature of the thing that can’t be expressed, or find a way to describe what it consists of. I believe that there are at least four possible candidates for a non-nonsensical answer: ineffable objects, ineffable truths, ineffable content, and ineffable knowledge."
"From Kant onwards, philosophers’ interest in ineffable objects gave way to the idea that ineffability is a symptom of the insufficiency of language as a tool for capturing the ultimate truths of the world. Søren Kierkegaard suggested in 1844 that humans are trapped in the ‘ultimate paradox of thought’, wanting to discover things ‘that thought itself cannot think’. — 3017amen
If I say the apple is red, but upon further observation it is a mottled color of red, we don't have a specific word from language that captures that specific color (from the color wheel). So in theory it becomes logically described as red and not red, and therefore becomes a half-truth. — 3017amen
Similarly, it follows that in consciousness we can impart our subjective experiences, but you could say they are too, only half-truth's because of the limitations in language. — 3017amen
Which reverts right back to the original difficulty. We do introspect, but what are we really doing when we introspect? If we introspect from the arena that lacks experience, we are merely imagining; if we introspect from the arena that has experience, we are merely reviewing. Not drawing the line between them, is where the conventional meaning of introspection gets bogged down. — Mww
That is non-rational. — T Clark
I wouldn't say introspection is a source of knowledge; all the knowledge comes a posteriori ultimately but it certainly allows for sifting through and identifying what is sound true fact vs what is not. It's more a tool for gaining knowledge but not the source of knowledge. — aporiap
I would distinguish between introspection and feelings, thoughts, beliefs or other mental objects because those things are still experiential/empirical. Identifying those things internally is still an empirical process -- you are recognizing facts about your inner life. The actual reasoning process/introspection is not the same thing. — aporiap
Sharing subjective experiences (knowledge from introspection) with one another is not without its virtues or merit. T Clark ( and other's) you alluded to this I think. Thus we can gain knowledge through 'corroboration' or verifying similar experiences that we have, (with each other by trying to describe them). — 3017amen
I'm sorry I misunderstood the claim here. I still would say it's a method of obtaining knowledge not a source; the 'dog sitting on the lawn', that fact, is sourced from the outside world. But I wont talk about it more.When I observe the outside world with my senses, e.g. a dog sitting on my lawn, is that observation a source of knowledge or a tool for gaining knowledge? In my view, introspection is an observation that is internal rather than external. I'm going to stick with "source of knowledge," but let's not get into a back and forth about it. I don't think it really matters.
It is a source of information about how you are and how people are. — Judaka
Introspection is a source of information that shows.....
.....how I am, absolutely:
.....how other people are, I can’t accept. Well, introspection show them how they are, but it won’t show me how they are. — Mww
I think you can get information about others via introspection. It can show you the effects others have on you - obviously suceptible to bias. This info could be used later in discussions with others who have had contact with that person. And also, if you have 'worked on yourself' for a long time, you may have a decent handle on your biases, having previously cross-checked with others. You might be able informed by introspection after and during contact with someone begin to analyze their behavior and words given what you notice about the effects of being around them, about what happens when they do or say X. And have some trust in those conclusions. Oh, he plays dominance games, I wondered why I felt defensive around him. The latter felt state - defensive - one you noted via introspection. Of course some people will be better at this than others. But your reactions to the world, which can be explored and the understanding deepened via introspection, can give you information about things outside you.Introspection is a source of information that shows.....
.....how I am, absolutely:
.....how other people are, I can’t accept. Well, introspection show them how they are, but it won’t show me how they are. — Mww
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