What do we actually mean when we say life is "good" or "bad"? Are we comparing? Is there some sort of objective standard? — Echarmion
The special case is creating new moral subjects in the first place. We could apply the same logic to the question of whether or not it is moral to create human-level-intelligence AIs for menial tasks (essentially as slaves). — Echarmion
Exactly, im not grateful for that, because if i would not be alive, i would not suffer. — Baskol1
Yes, suffering is always bad, obvously. — Baskol1
There's no objective standard, but that doesn't mean that anything goes or that we can't asses the matter sensibly. — S
I am just asking what we are assessing. Is life "bad" if I feel sad, or hungry, or frustrated right now? Do we add up all the times we fell this way? The antinatalist argument that life is "bad" seems to lack any metrics for which to establish this. — Echarmion
The question of artificial consciousness and what concern is due with respect to its creation (and destruction) is one which may well have relevance in the 21st century. The side benefit is that the question of consent will again be played out. In as much as dollars are in the mix here, we can expect that the question will be answered (or not answered) in a way which maximizes profit, so the quandary might find itself pushed out again. — JosephS
Another tangential concern is that of embryonic genetic manipulation. If we assume that the resolution of things that are almost uniformly considered deleterious (e.g. sickle cell) meets no serious objection, we arrive at body enhancements. Under what conditions is it acceptable to 'enhance' a child, in utero, without their consent? Personally, I think a third thumb could be quite useful. Are there situations where the impossibility of getting consent would be treated as tacit permission for the enhancements? — JosephS
Im alive because suicide isnt that easy. — Baskol1
You dont think [that an] adult should have the right to die if they want [to]? — Baskol1
How can you say that that's not his argument, and then go on to mention consent in your description of his argument? That's a contradiction. Clearly if it's in his argument, then he thinks that it's of relevance. I'm saying that it's not, because obtaining consent isn't even a possibility.
And his assertion about putting someone in a riskier situation not only lacks justification, but has been refuted by counterexample. — S
Your inconsistency, you mean. If life were that bad, then there would be nothing at stake. — S
No, read it correctly, I am saying it is his argument. It is the main point of his argument. — schopenhauer1
And the very fact that it is impossible to obtain consent, he seems to be saying, is why you should pick the least riskiest option (not born at all). — schopenhauer1
You don't think adult should have the right to die if they want? — Baskol1
No, not simply if they want to. But I do support the legality of assisted suicide under the right circumstances, as per the laws in certain countries. — S
No, not simply if they want to. But I do support the legality of assisted suicide under the right circumstances, as per the laws in certain countries. — S
Why? What gives anyone the right to decide for someone else whether or not they are allowed to kill themselves? I understand about mental illness that might lead to suicide and how we would want to “save” that person, but if they don’t want help and just want to die...you want someone other than them to make that decision? A person cannot even die if they want to die? We gotta take that from them too? — DingoJones
Consent seems more or less like a red herring to me. The problem is more basic than that: can we even make an argument about what kind of moral subjects should exist? — Echarmion
Well I dont think we should rashly submit to what someone says, that's a straw-man. — DingoJones
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