Again, read before replying. — Shamshir
The justification I'm using is that "correct/incorrect" have a normative connotation, but commonality or consensus do not make normatives obtain. Is that the same justification you're using? — Terrapin Station
Use those eyes for once and read before you reply. — Shamshir
The same kind of justification. The elevator example is a category error, and it's a category error because the way that I'm interpreting it leads to that conclusion. What's the problem? Could it, perchance, be my interpretation? — S
What you wrote is "in a sense that I'm making up" as if I were appealing to some unusual sense of the terms. — Terrapin Station
Yeah. It's very unusual to go by any interpretation which means that people can't get matters like we've been talking about right or wrong. — S
Not all actions are speech. — Terrapin Station
Don't even try to squirm out of this one.I want to live in a world where anyone can express anything whatsoever, in any context.
8m — Terrapin Station
Aside from the fact that you're claiming to know everything anyone has ever proposed — Terrapin Station
you're aware that the measurement standards, per widespread acceptance, have not only changed over time, but there have been competing standards in effect simultaneously at various historical times, right? — Terrapin Station
If you just wanted to have a discussion about what the common views are, as if you were doing a bit of descriptive cultural anthropology, then yeah, you'd be less likely to talk about arbitrariness, etc.--or at least that would be a big sidebar for it.
Hopefully you'd not be of a view that a cultural norm amounts to a normative, because it doesn't. — Terrapin Station
You of all people should know that knowledge claims are not based on absolute proof, come on! — Isaac
Again, this is rather disingenuous considering your usual attention to detail. — Isaac
Again, you're ignoring my argument re moral foundational principles vs moral 'views'. Abstenence from sex before marriage is a moral view with normative weight, but no one (and I mean no one) is simply born, or grows up with a gut feeling that they should abstain from sex before marriage. The position derives from more foundational ones (we should seek to follow the Bible, we should resist carnal temptation as a virtue, we should not cause harm to others - presuming such an act would result in harm, etc...). Even some of those will be based on even more foundational beliefs. — Isaac
So when we discuss normative moral positions we make an assumption about shared foundational beliefs — Isaac
Like I said, thats a different issue. — DingoJones
Simple. Its neither 'weight' nor 'importance' of consensus, its the liklihood of broad confirmity and the usefulness in discussion of assuming it. — Isaac
So just what is the usefulness in discussion of assuming that? Is it supposed to imply something? What? — Terrapin Station
In my view, yes. I'm a free speech absolutist.
I don't agree that speech can actually cause violence. People deciding to be violent causes violence. — Terrapin Station
It's your choice, your responsibility, to follow orders or not. There's no way I'd follow an order to kill anyone if I didn't think it was justified to kill them. And then that's on me, because it was my choice. — Terrapin Station
Oh yeah, smacking you across the mouth isn't an expression of discontent for the quibble coming out of it, it's just the sensible thing to do.Expression = speech. — Terrapin Station
What you seem to be doing is trying to figure out how to interpret normal folks so that per the exact language they happen to use, they don't have any either bollocksed or unanalyzed beliefs. (Although for some reason you don't really seem to do that when it comes to religion.) — Terrapin Station
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