So here is the question:
What is the standard to prove to you mind body dualism? Assume you had the grant money. How would you prove the mind body separation is valid enough to put more study into? What is your standard for simply being convinced that it is in fact the truth of our being? Essentially I'm curious where folks at large stand on this. Not in any religious sense but in the look in the mirror sense. When you hurt your arm do you feel it in your soul or simply in need of repairs on the old jalopy? Discuss. — MiloL
the point of the question I suppose it what would convince you outside of simply faith. — MiloL
The ancient Mind/Body conundrum is based on a false assumption : that the Mind/Soul is a thing apart from the Brain/Body. Like the "Hard Problem" of consciousness, it derives from the human propensity to reify abstractions.What is the standard to prove to you mind body dualism? — MiloL
Considering mind is an experience, and body is a physical object, I'm actually curious what the argument is for these two being the same? — Tzeentch
Minds have experiences — Terrapin Station
Explain to me the difference between mind and experience, then. — Tzeentch
Conventional definitions don't interest me. Explain it to me. — Tzeentch
The ancient Mind/Body conundrum is based on a false assumption : that the Mind/Soul is a thing apart from the Brain/Body. — Gnomon
The modern mind-body problem arose out of the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century, as a direct result of the concept of objective physical reality that drove that revolution. Galileo and Descartes made the crucial conceptual division by proposing that physical science should provide a mathematically precise quantitative description of an external reality extended in space and time, a description limited to spatiotemporal primary qualities such as shape, size, and motion, and to laws governing the relations among them. Subjective appearances, on the other hand -- how this physical world appears to human perception -- were assigned to the mind, and the secondary qualities like color, sound, and smell were to be analyzed relationally, in terms of the power of physical things, acting on the senses, to produce those appearances in the minds of observers. It was essential to leave out or subtract subjective appearances and the human mind -- as well as human intentions and purposes -- from the physical world in order to permit this powerful but austere spatiotemporal conception of objective physical reality to develop. (Mind and Cosmos, pp. 35-36) — Thomas Nagel
Conventional definitions of "experience":
"direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge"
"something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through"
"practical contact with and observation of facts or events." — Terrapin Station
What is the standard to prove to you mind body dualism? — MiloL
What is the standard to prove to you mind body dualism? — MiloL
I’m not sure I follow how concepts, ideas, desires, etc are not experiences (albeit internal ones), even according to these conventional definitions. — Possibility
Also, one of the main factors that leads so many to believe such things as mind-brain identity is the tight correlation between the structure of experience and brain events. If you could show strong evidence of a non-correlation here, you might be onto something. — petrichor
So in your view a concept that you have is an event? — Terrapin Station
ok so what if one could show intentional communication when the biology suggests no one is home. nothing earth breaking but something that told anyone who actually knew the person that they were witnessing and intentional expression of some message. would that suffice in proving anything? — MiloL
An event is not the same as an experience, in my view — Possibility
I see your point. But the notion of a Soul separate from the Body goes back at least to ancient Egypt. Descartes merely made the distinction formal in order to allow physical Science to proceed without concern for controversial metaphysical assumptions. It was an early form of the Non-Overlapping Magisteria argument.That's not 'the ancient mind/body problem' but 'the modern mind body problem'. — Wayfarer
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