I like the way St. Patrick explain the trinity. A shamrock has 3 leaves each separate from the other but together they make one. — hachit
It seems to me that that the doctrine of the Trinity is not something given just to circumvent incoherencies in Scripture, but rather a way to describe the main parts of who God is. This means that it is not that case that Jesus, Jehovah, and the Holy Ghost are all different entities, but rather that they are just parts of one being manifested in different ways so as to perform different essential functions. — CFR73
the three entities — Jacob-B
The ostensible existence of a "trinity" is a good reason to doubt the truth of Christianity. — Relativist
By "the truth of Christianity", I am referring to key doctrines of Trinitarian Christianity being true. In particular, that Jesus actually existed, was executed (died), and was resurrected (he lived again, walking the earth), and that Jesus is God (of the same substance as "God the father", and the "Holy Spirit". This does not apply to non-Trinitarians, such as Jehovah's Witnesses.What, exactly, is meant - do you mean - by "the truth of Christianity"? Whoever said that any test of Christianity was dependent on "truth"? — tim wood
Holy Spirit — Relativist
Maybe true for you. Is it? Can you think of nothing that on the one hand you believe true but at the same time cannot aver as true?(I believe p) = (I believe p is true). — Relativist
This is an application of the equivocation fallacy. If each leaf of the three is a separate leaf, then the three together is not "a leaf" but a conglomeration of leaves. If the three parts form one leaf, the the three parts are not individually leaves each but parts of a leaf.
Sorry I thought it was obvious that the 3 leaves made up the one shamrock. — hachit
... one LEAF? one SHAMROCK?A shamrock has 3 leaves each separate from the other but together they make one. — hachit
You only need to read the first sentence ofAnd? So? Please make your point in something that requires fewer than several thousand words, 123 author citations, with about 175 papers cited. It's clear, in any case, that the topic, belief, can be understood in various and not necessarily compatible ways. Equally clear is that each of these ways is criteria based. That is, from differing starting points, one arrives at differing understandings of what belief is.
Your proposition P ≡ ((I believe X) = (I believe X is true)), then, may be true under some criteria, but I deny that it is universally true. Let's try this: do you affirm or deny that P is universally true? — tim wood
Thanks for the explanation, hachit.God is one entity with 3 parts but each one of it parts is not the other. Father, Son, Holy spirit.
They are of one substance, three minds, and three bodys.
Whatever the substance is, that is what makes them God and it is shared between them. — hachit
And here it is:You only need to read the first sentence of
this article. — Relativist
well let start by saying that there all God. — hachit
And the holy spirit is the divine power of God. — hachit
Remember, our own conscious existence (and the nature thereof) is not coherent. — 3017amen
I never said anything about it BEING true. What I said was:Wherein in that sentence does it say anything at all about anything's being true? — tim wood
The ostensible existence of a "trinity" is a good reason to doubt the truth of Christianity. — Relativist
I never said anything about it BEING true. What I said was, (I believe p) = (I believe p is true). — Relativist
You're free to believe what you like. You're free to doubt the truth of the Trinity - you'll have lots of company, some of it good. However, on these bases to doubt the truth of Christianity is just ignorant confusion. The truth of Christianity lies in what adherents believe and what they do with their beliefs. And if you pay attention and listen to Christians, that's what they themselves will tell you, and that is all they'll tell you. Or they may add that they believe the details are true, but no Christian who understands his or her faith will tell you that they are true, excepting as they themselves are ignorant.But no Christians claim these are true.... The Creed of Christians is contained in the opening words of their Creed (Creed: system, statement, set of beliefs): "We believe...". That's it, and that's all there is to it. Period. — tim wood
The best way, I think, is to describe the concept is in sets and subset. You have the set of God, within this set are other sets called subsets. Jesus, God the Father, and The Holy spirit. None of the subsets overlap. — hachit
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