You should. They're your neighbours so you'd better work it out. — Benkei

This betrays an immense naivete on contemporary American politics as I've outlined multiple times elsewhere in this thread.

What your reaction betrays is your and the average American's inability to have a conversation with people you don't agree with. If the US is that hopeless that you can't even muster the effort to engage fellow citizens you're better of moving to Mexico.

However, while figures show that illegal border crossings into the US have seen an overall decline since 2000, they have been rising again since Mr Trump took office.

The current financial year has so far seen more than 800,000 people detained on the southern US border - already twice the total for 2018. — BBC News

Source

Yesterday Trump tweeted the following:

As I learn more and more each day, I am coming to the conclusion that what is taking place is not an impeachment, it is a COUP, intended to take away the Power of the....

....People, their VOTE, their Freedoms, their Second Amendment, Religion, Military, Border Wall, and their God-given rights as a Citizen of The United States of America!

This is demagoguery. Another example of Trump's willingness to tear apart the country to save himself.

This is the formation of his strategy - it is not an obstruction of justice to refuse to comply with Congress when the House is acting illegally. But many people do not understand the constitutionality of impeachment and so he employs his most effective weapon, fear. Fear that this threatens their guns and their god and their security.

Or he's just losing his mind. He's not an evil genius.

Or he's just losing his mind. He's not an evil genius. — frank

Except it is not just Trump. Peter Navarro, Mr. Trump’s trade adviser, on Fox Business Network, compared the Democrats to Soviet-era secret police and their effort to an “attempted coup d’état.”

Or he's just losing his mind. He's not an evil genius. — frank

I think his head is reaching his intestines at this point.

*In the next episode of the Twilight Zone, we learn that his head can reach his stomach!*

*Folks his head is so deep down his ass, that we don't know where things start and where they end!*

Except it is not just Trump. Peter Navarro, Mr. Trump’s trade adviser, on Fox Business Network, compared the Democrats to Soviet-era secret police and their effort to an “attempted coup d’état.” — Fooloso4

Oh. They're playing to militia-types. "It's a Soviet takeover! Just like in 1955!"

Do you think this will work for or against Trump?

think his head is reaching his intestines at this point. — Wallows

Many American leaders consult their guts, but not like that. I recently saw The Thing. You're not helping my sanity by bring up head/intestines.

The extreme paranoia of The Thing is being enacted in real life Frank... If my sanity is in check I believe he wanted foreign intelligence agencies to give him dirt on US intelligence agencies. You can't make up this shit.

The extreme paranoia of The Thing is being enacted in real life Frank.. — Wallows

The American head bites it's own neck in half.

Ahhhhhhh!

Oh. They're playing to militia-types. "It's a Soviet takeover! Just like in 1955!"

Do you think this will work for or against Trump? — frank

Not just militia-types. Note Trump's inclusion of religion, as if impeaching him is somehow a threat to religious freedom. There is obviously no logical connection but Evangelicals and some others believe that their religious freedoms are threatened and Trump is their protector. So, a threat to Trump is viewed as a threat to their religious freedom.

It's all about paranoia, then. The clouds are full of static paranoia looking to be expressed somehow. Trump wants to be a lightning rod.

It appears Dems and their apparatchiks in the media will do anything to discredit the ongoing investigation. We already know the collusion narrative was the fakest of news, but how will they react if they find they’ve been backing a deep-state coup against the POTUS this whole time?

Either way this goes, it is turning out to be the biggest scandal in modern American politics

@Baden
I think the above is spam that shouldn't be allowed.

I think the above is spam that shouldn't be allowed.

Of course, your Trump mind-reading is within the realm of acceptable discourse, I imagine.

Noted. But there might as well be someone to give the 'official' line here. Engage or not to the extent you think it's worthwhile.

It's worth noting, speaking of 'normalcy', that some of Trump's most insidious policies were enacted precisely through the institutions that liberals like to hold as an apparent bulwark against

...

It's like people like to portray Trump as norm eroding so as to better hide just how fucked up 'normal' is from the very beginning. Everytime someone talks about Trump's latest media gaffe and not his latest court appointment, they're part of the problem.

That’s a great analysis.

Legitimate criticism has been replaced by word-policing and routine snobbery. This does not draw anyone to their cause save for, well, censors and snobs.

Antitrumpism is a wholly reactionary movement in the sense that it defends the established order. I can imagine a time when the so-called “left” might have championed the president taking on the CIA, but now it’s the other way about.

Noted. But there might as well be someone to give the 'official' line here. Engage or not to the extent you think it's worthwhile. — Baden

Ok. I just don't like people being taken in by a troller. Can you at least change his status to "suspected troll"?

From a mod point of view, it's just a political debate and we don't have any official dog in the fight. If you think anyone is guilty of trolling though, please make a case to us by PM rather than in the discussion. Thanks.

More like a Machiavellian-let them eat cake lover.

I’m just making a comment on the passing outrage, Frank. Your public tattling is virtue-signalling.

If you think anyone is guilty of trolling though, please make a case to us by PM rather than in the discussion — Baden

It's been commented on repeatedly. Michael knows. It was that one pre-recorded post I objected to. Per usual, you're maximally obtuse.

What do you mean by 'pre-recorded'?

Per usual, you're maximally obtuse. — frank

Damn, and this is me in a good mood. :)

Damn, and this is me in a good mood. :) — Baden

I'm glad you're in a good mood. You're still obtuse.

If anyone is copy-pasting stuff, that would be deleted, but please make it clear by PM and let the discussion go on impeded. We're doing our best to be impartial is all.

I think the above is spam that shouldn't be allowed. — frank

I don't agree. Trump believes there is a "deep-state" conspiracy. His administration seems to accept it as truth. Senior White House policy adviser Stephen Miller is claiming that the whistle-blower is a deep state operative.

My point is not to lend credibility to such accusations but rather to point out that it is essential to both the Trump administration's actions and its defense of those actions.

The problem with conspiracy claims is that any attempt to investigate them that does not corroborate them becomes part of the conspiracy.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with Giuliani's testimony before the House.

Antitrumpism is a wholly reactionary movement in the sense that it defends the established order. I can imagine a time when the so-called “left” might have championed the president taking on the CIA, but now it’s the other way about. — NOS4A2

Oh make no mistake. Trump is an abomination, but he is an abomination birthed by an equally abominable system. The only relevant question is how to be smart in dismantling his agenda and putting a stop to its perpetuation. You're right though that to see some elements of the left pin their hopes on the CIA was (is?) an incredibly bizarre spectacle. That said, what passes for alot of the American left is simply alot of limp liberalism, whom one suspects would have little problem with Trump if only he was more polite and 'presidential' about it all. Always worth remembering that Barack "drone strike" Obama had a far more effective deportation regime than anything Trump has managed to muster up so far.

I don't agree. — Fooloso4

Ok. But I think you would agree that the majority of Trump supporters are a little more sensible than that. But maybe I just get your answer first. Do you think our troll is more than a mouthpiece for forces seeking to create mistrust and division?

Do you think our troll is typical of Trump supporters?

Oh make no mistake. Trump is an abomination, but he is an abomination birthed by an equally abominable system. The only relevant question is how to be smart in dismantling his agenda and putting a stop to its perpetuation. You're right though that to see some elements of the left pin their hopes on the CIA was (is?) an incredibly bizarre spectacle.

I believe a dem could easily win if they ran on policy instead of anti-Trumpism, political correctness and identity politics. The problem is, in my mind, the political triangulation of the party over the previous decades has hollowed out any chance at a competing platform, essentially blurring the two parties into a one-party behemoth.