Drazjan — Drazjan

Good points.

Christianity and all religions started as pagan.

Orthodoxy just says that the pagan religion got bigger and became the mainstream.

Catholics have always used idolatry. — Drazjan

I do not see it quite that way although that is certainly what they are today.

The literal reading of myths is what ruined Christianity. Before that, they made sense.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

I find "belief" necessarily inverts this, and should be discarded. — A Gnostic Agnostic

ASAP.

I have stated that the governments should have a revues and critique of all the religions of our country so as to at least let the people know what the experts think of them in both their moral views as well as overall views. That might at least have the right wingers stop their homophobia and misogyny.

The Noble Lie of the positive value of religions must end eventually. Soonest is best as more and more garbage religions are popping up.

Regard
DL

"We all idol worship in some sense. If you can think analogically you will agree".

No I don't agree. — fresco

You have nothing you hold above anything else?
Money, family, friends or ideology.

Ok.

Regards
DL

On the other hand, the scriptures give no precise indication what god looks like. — god must be atheist

They try by making him a male who coveted Joseph's wife for reproduction and god is sure human like by showing that he is a deadbeat dad.

Regards
DL

But a charismatic ghost matters in the real world, made up or not. — joshua

Good post.

Jesus, especially, was aware of this intelligent thinking. That is why he urged us to elect a new god that seemed like him at the end times.

I am hoping that the world elects a new eco system Czar, be he charismatic or not, because without one, we could become one of the species heading for extinction in our present major extinction event.

We need a Czar with teeth for the planet as well as a moral person ruling all of it.

Regards
DL

Have the believer somehow break and/or lose the symbol, the sign, the cross, the bust, picture, representation, figure, etc. of Jesus and see how it effects/affects them. — creativesoul

I could not say what sheeple would do if they had to follow what scriptures say.
They never have. But yes, it would certainly be a thing to see.

Regards
DL

Idol worship is not about ideals. It is very constricted to the worship of a figure. A physical figure, a manifestation or likeness in physical features of another figure. Idol worship does not extend to the description of other attributes of god, aside from the visual form. — god must be atheist

You do not see Christians as seeing god as an ideal. Ok.

If god is not their notion of what an ideal god is, what ideal do they put above god?

Regards
DL

aside from the visual form. — god must be atheist

Which is what is definitely forbidden.

Regards
DL

As a result, Islamic art is mostly geometrical and calligraphical. — Beoroqo

Mostly, yes, but they apply others showing depictions as idolatry or blasphemy so they must be recognizing the depictions as being of their idol. In fact, if apostates do not follow in just the prescribed idolatrous ways, you get killed, if you happen to live in a Muslim majority country running on Sharia law.

Regards
DL

TV rules because it's close to the animated idols in our imaginations. — joshua

Yes. Our all important egos are being spoon fed by our money motivated masters.

Regards
DL

Personally I'd go in for a more mystical, philosophical Jesus. He'd only sound crazy to those who didn't decode his metaphors. — joshua

That is the Gnostic Christian Jesus, while the one you do not favor is the Rome created Jesus.

Here is how Gnostic Jesus talked. Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

The turgid parasitic baiting of 'traditional religionists' is the only activity the author does on this and other forums. — fresco

Why do you favor a homophobic and misogynous religion that has it's adherents thinking that a genocidal god is a good god.

Here is my motivation.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

If not, you show a corrupted moral sense.

Regards
DL

But he's already banned — joshua

Seems not.

Regards
DL

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I like what the Rabbi said, but I would probably have rejected his cosmology, just as I reject the Greek commentator's. No human being has ever possessed esoteric, secret, or individual revelations about the nature of reality. Those who have claimed such are either deluded or charlatans. In the perception cosmic truth, we are all equal. To believe otherwise is to insult one's own intelligence. However, there is very large swathe of humanity who easily persuaded by claims of the brand of knowledge that cannot be understood until it is already "believed." Its obvious, that people use the word "belief" very loosely.

How is it a problem for you? — frank

I do not have a problem with Christians being idol worshipers, if they admit it.

Regards
DL

No human being has ever possessed esoteric, secret, or individual revelations about the nature of reality. — Drazjan

I mostly agree with your post but not this part.

For starters, you phrase it as a logical fallacy that you cannot prove and second, we are not sure of all the aspects of reality.

For instance, I hold the knowledge that telepathy is real and that belies your views. Science has confirmed telepathy between twins as well.

Regards
DL

I do not have a problem with Christians being idol worshipers, if they admit it. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

And if they don't, what are you going to do? Tickle them?

No human being has ever possessed esoteric, secret, or individual revelations about the nature of reality. — Drazjan


I mostly agree with your post but not this part.

For starters, you phrase it as a logical fallacy that you cannot prove and second, we are not sure of all the aspects of reality.

For instance, I hold the knowledge that telepathy is real and that belies your views. Science has confirmed telepathy between twins as well. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

What you disagree with is fundamental equality. Like God, it cannot be proven. But God-freaks do not have a monopoly on belief. If you do not believe in our equality in the nature of reality, there is no further point communicating.

Here's how your trolling /preaching twaddle operates.

1. You set yourself up as a missionary for militant 'anti established religionism'.
2. You superciliously accuse any religionist or non militant atheist of supporting the 'social evils' that can lurk in any human organization (including the gnostic club!).
3. Like any troll who feeds on the oxygen of an audience, you are driven to repeat versions of the same simplistic rubbish again and again.

Isn't about time you grew up and realized that the majority of the population, including you, have a psychological need for some belief system which transcends their understanding of 'self' ?The fact that your understanding of both 'self' and 'belief' tends to be stuck in the domain of 'folk psychology', with no appreciation of the systemic dynamics which operates in social relationships, implies you need to get off your ridiculous pedestal and continue your education.

And if they don't, what are you going to do? Tickle them? — frank

No. Enter their names in my, --- too stupid to bother with, --- file.

Regards
DL

What you disagree with is fundamental equality. Like God, it cannot be proven. But God-freaks do not have a monopoly on belief. If you do not believe in our equality in the nature of reality, there is no further point communicating. — Drazjan

Eh, no.

Gnostic Christians are unive4rsalists who have tied equality to the righteousness of god.

We believe in equality under the law and that is why we, unlike Christians and Muslims, are not homophobic and misogynous.

That is a pat of why some say the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm
On Righteousness --- The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality.

That aside, I refuse to bring women and children down to my level with equality and believe that the law of the sea that puts women and children first is the moral position for all of us men.

As a naturalist, I think that that is man's cross to bear.

Regards
DL

Here's how your trolling /preaching twaddle operates. — fresco

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

Not another repeat of the Roosevelt quote ! ...and do you seriously think regurgitating adolescent religious criticisms constitutes 'an idea'?

Benjamin Fulford — A Gnostic Agnostic

He's still at it? You know that guy is a fraud, right? You would be wise to pay zero attention to him.

There are few people I detest more than liars like these two who prey on people. — petrichor

How do you like your government using your tax $$ to pay the shortfall created by religious tax exemptions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

I, like you I hope, hate supporting the liars yet have no choice in this.

Regards
DL

What is it with the US and ridiculous preachers ?
I'm asking you because you are one of them whether or not you're earning from it.

Could you provide examples of "depictions"?

It seems like you are giving an argument similar to the one as follows in your post:
1. It is wrong to worship idols other than Yahweh as a Christian.
2. If Jesus is an idol, then it is wrong to worship Jesus.
3. Jesus is an idol.
4. Thus, it is wrong to worship Jesus.

As apparent in this argument, I am putting aside the issue of graven or carved images that mentioned as well as what is right or wrong in the Muslim tradition which all can be addressed another time. In regards to Jesus being an idol though, I have some pushback. An idol, in biblical times, was something worshipped in place of God (Yahweh) as if it were actually God. In the case of Jesus, however, I do not think that it is the case that people who worship Jesus are worshipping an idol in this same sense, i.e. worshipping something in the place of God as if it were God instead. This is because Jesus IS God. Jesus is the manifestation of God in human flesh so that God could die for those he loved, as in us, and so that we may not take or deserved punishment for our sins. If this is denied by saying that Jesus was not the incarnation of God and was simply just a human then Jesus would be an idol, but if he is the incarnation of God then he is not a replacement of God like an idol would but is actually God himself. So, I would have to say that premise 3 of this argument is false; Jesus is not an idol but is the incarnate of God himself, so it would not be wrong to worship him as a Christian.
Hope this can be of some help!

What is it with the US and ridiculous preachers ? — fresco

The fact that we/you tolerate the perpetual lying preachers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Regards
DL

Could you provide examples of "depictions"? — Beoroqo

Yes. The link above, as well as the lies said about a god that no one can show exists.

Regards
DL