Even the supposition that identity should not matter is caught in these terms. It holds the only way identity could matter is if it were a stereotype to gain merit over others. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Identity has another side, the binding of an existing person, in a social environment, under a concept of who they are. This side (which is a social construct, as are all our identity categories) of race, religion, gender, ability, etc. is real, the people who are distinguished by concepts, who exist is certain material conditions, who are related in specific ways to culture an organisation of society. — TheWillowOfDarkness
A society which values equality does not see race, religion, gender or ability as irrelevant. It understands people with those identities are valuable. It sees them as part of society and recognises society will not be equitable if it ignores them. — TheWillowOfDarkness
There is also a bit of tension with individualist culture here. If we are in a position of respecting notions of individual freedom, we have to admit the woke-capitalist more than just getting some ideas right. We would have to admit the up-down color gradient of horizontal symmetry (note: we do not really have this now, only certain touches here and there) is an improvement, since it will have altered society in which individuals of certain identities are better valued than before. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Banno, tell us how race is so absolutely significant to you, that it's central to your individual identity. — ssu
No one is allowed beg in our street, regardless of how wealthy they are, and what bribes they can pay.
Turkey declaring a ceasefire after it has annexed Kurdistan. That's fair. Any Kurds or Syrians who fight after the declaration of a ceasefire are acting in bad faith.
Whitefella give you your land back, unless it has something in it we can mine, or we need to put a road or pipeline over it, 'cause then it belongs to all of us, again.
All fair, all good. — Banno
So...? — Banno
Yep. And nonwhites in western developed rich countries, if they're smart about surviving, worry about how white fellas expect to use "race" to gain / maintain advantages at the expense of non-white fellas (& gals) and are wary of tells for those expectations. This is survivor strategy not 'victim mentality'. "Content of character"? One's expections of who ought to benefit and who ought to pay at the intersection of e.g. whites & non-whites in a white majority, or controlled, social order expresses "the content of one's character" either way and in both white majority "fellas" & nonwhite minorities as well.I'm a white fella. I don't have to worry about my race. — Banno
Anyway. Without impugning motives or casting aspersions, many commentors on this thread baffle me with their uncharitable (to say the least) responses to what Banno, TheWillowOfDarkness, Bitter Crank, Isaac, et al (from both white & non-white perspectives) have quite clearly said thus far. An incorrigible muddle, I think, from a persistent and pervasive habit of conflating personal prejudice with social-systemic racism. That way leads to the burqa side (as suggested previously) ... — 180 Proof
it’s not that being of some race per se (ought to) give some people rights that other people don’t get, but that nobody should have their rights to their homes etc violated regardless of race. — Pfhorrest
Scientifically speaking the definition is quite distinct. There is one human race not multiple sub-subspecies of humans. The genetic differences between humans is minute - nothing that comes even close to talk about different species of humans. — I like sushi
The point here is people conflate the two terms often enough. It’s a relatively easy slip to make given the scientific weight of the term ‘race’ and the political weight of the term ‘race’. I think this kind of conflation has lessened to a agree due to education, but it is tied to a history where the scientific community used to think there were distinct human ‘races’. — I like sushi
Races are the mental chains that early racists strung around vast, disparate and diverse groups of people to justify their oppression and conquering. — NOS4A2
Color-blindness and the dream of a color blind society was always an ethos that propelled abolitionism, civil rights and anti-apartheid, while race-consciousness, “the Veil” of DuBois, was always the problem to begin with. — NOS4A2
I generally look at prejudice as prejudice rather than honing in on any particular example of it. So ‘race’, ‘religion’, ‘language’, ‘sex’, ‘sexual preferences, or ‘political attitudes’ are just flavours of human prejudices — I like sushi
Yes, that's a very literal or perhaps concrete interpretation of my quesitons. I was asking what part of character, which is not going to be a body part, I asssume? What part of character isSO literal.
The left finger. — Banno
What part of their character am I noticing?Noticing someone's ethnicity makes a huge difference to how one ought act towards them — Banno
Perhaps a specific example would make this clear. I see a person who looks Latino, or perhaps Greek. What do I know about his or her character now?...and yet the colour of this skin is part of the content of their character. — Banno
Anyway. Without impugning motives or casting aspersions, many commentors on this thread baffle me with their uncharitable (to say the least) responses to what Banno, TheWillowOfDarkness, Swan, Bitter Crank, Isaac, et al (from both white & non-white perspectives) have quite clearly said thus far. An incorrigible muddle, I think, from a persistent and pervasive habit of conflating personal prejudice with social-systemic racism. That way leads to the burqa side (as suggested previously) ... — 180 Proof
Oh, yeah. Hence my quoting Shakespeare... — Banno
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