He felt quite strongly, so it appears, that the natural sciences were set up against subjective consciousness on firm yet not infallible grounding. — I like sushi
The subjective/objective dichotomy cannot take proper account of that which consists of both, and is thus... neither.
Experience is one such thing. — creativesoul
The subjective/objective dichotomy cannot take proper account of that which consists of both, and is thus... neither.
Experience is one such thing.
— creativesoul
In simplistic terms, yeah. — I like sushi
Personally I see Phenomenology as a bridge between the historical opposition of Idealism and Realism. — I like sushi
I'm failing to find sense in experience happening to someone who is not aware the experience is their own. I'd say 'to experience' is the same thing as being conscious, and I also fail to see how consciousness makes sense without self-awareness.Some. Not all.
We experience tactile, auditory and motor, as well as taste and smell and many kinds of somato-sensory visualizations I would say. Well, at least that's my experience. I suppose it's not a given that we are all the same. — Janus
I thought you said above that there was no subjective/objective dichotomy? That is essentially the position phenomenology works from, so I’m baffled as to what you’re referring to here.
You don’t have to like it. I’m just telling you what it is. — I like sushi
Also, understand that Husserl (“The father of Phenomenology”) was logician. He was very wary of historicism and psychologism. He aimed to bring the ‘subjective’ into the field of play — I like sushi
I'm failing to find sense in experience happening to someone who is not aware the experience is their own. I'd say 'to experience' is the same thing as being conscious, and I also fail to see how consciousness makes sense without self-awareness. — Zelebg
From a more objective standpoint, it’s not an ‘illusion’, but an alternative subjective experience of the same reality. — Possibility
The experiment involved the subjects observing two specific objects being placed into a particular container/box. There was more than one container. They showed their own surprise when they looked for themselves into the box and did not find what they were expecting to find.
Then, under similar enough circumstances(I suppose), they observed another looking into the wrong box and showed that that bothered them in some way. The speaker claimed that such displays proved somehow that they recognized that the other had a mind???
I found it rather odd that they chose some experiments/games which are not even capable of showing in humans what they are wanting the same experiment to show in non humans? — creativesoul
We experience tactile, auditory and motor, as well as taste and smell and many kinds of somato-sensory visualizations I would say. Well, at least that's my experience. I suppose it's not a given that we are all the same.
— Janus
Yeah, I agree. We can actually see a lot of this happening in the brain. When you imagine a tree, the visual cortex is engaged in a very similar way to when you actually see a tree. What happens next is (I think) quite remarkable. Signals are sent to the eyes to move them in the direction the tree would be if it were there. — Isaac
But if there is a thought without "self" isn't that just the same as philosophical zombie or a computer?Being conscious is having/forming thought and belief.
What experiment would you set up to show that humans had this feature? — Isaac
Being conscious is having/forming thought and belief.
But if there is a thought without "self" isn't that just the same as philosophical zombie or a computer? — Zelebg
On what ground does one make this last claim?
What metric does one use to distinguish between eye movements and eye movements in a particular direction for a particular purpose? How can signals be sent to move the eyes to see a tree that is nowhere to be seen? If it is nowhere there is no way to move the eyes in that direction.
The same could be said of any and all eye movement that may happen during the experiment. That's a problem isn't it?
The rest of that post seems to rest upon this notion of "signals sent to the eyes to move them in the direction of a imaginary tree." — creativesoul
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