I don't mean for this to sound harsh — intrapersona
Now look I am not an a close-minded arsehole, people can do whatever the hell they please as long as it doesn't cause dis-ease or impact on to someone else's life. But I just can't for the life of me see any reason in why there is acceptance over such a thing in society. — intrapersona
It is completely against our survival in evolutionary terms and looks like an aberrant disorder of the mind that serves no purpose and is completely backward to procreation as a species. For if everyone was a transgender and/or gay that would mean no one would have babies (assuming IVF does not exist). Even if such a world did exist with IVF included and boys looked like girls and girls looked like boys... it would be incredibly weird and look more like something out of a freakish absurd comedy-horror film. — intrapersona
That aside, can you imagine pretending to be a women your whole life? Does not that image seem related to a slightly psychotic child who never stopped wearing mummies dresses/lipstick and still sucks on his finger? — intrapersona
It seems to me that in order to quench the rowdy disorder that comes from different people's opinions on what our social codes should be (moral relativism) people end up saying they accept all sorts of outrageous things in life (like transgender people) but secretly on the inside they keep their opinions to themselves because they know it would cause unrest due to the social order we formed to quench the rowdy disorder that comes from people offering or rather shouting differing opinions (moral relativism). — intrapersona
As Bitter Crank pointed out, it isn't really an important matter. Never lose the perspective, this surely isn't an issue of human survival.I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but rather just truthful. I want to see if there is a flaw in my thinking here. — intrapersona
It seems to me that in order to quench the rowdy disorder that comes from different people's opinions on what our social codes should be (moral relativism) people end up saying they accept all sorts of outrageous things in life (like transgender people) but secretly on the inside they keep their opinions to themselves because they know it would cause unrest due to the social order we formed to quench the rowdy disorder that comes from people offering or rather shouting differing opinions (moral relativism). — intrapersona
It is completely against our survival in evolutionary terms... and is completely backward to procreation as a species. — intrapersona
and looks like an aberrant disorder of the mind that serves no purpose... — intrapersona
For if everyone was a transgender and/or gay that would mean no one would have babies (assuming IVF does not exist). Even if such a world did exist with IVF included and boys looked like girls and girls looked like boys... it would be incredibly weird and look more like something out of a freakish absurd comedy-horror film. — intrapersona
Transgenders have what is called a somatic delusion - where one believes that there is something wrong with their body.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Delusions.html
Why is it that we seem to allow some people to continue to hold their delusions, or even promote their delusional state, while others we try to "help" them overcome their delusions and see things as they truly are (that they are actually the gender they were born as). It comes down to "Is it moral to allow someone to continue believing in a lie, or to make them face the facts?" Would it be immoral to help reinforce their lie to themselves?
I would like to know how consistent people are in this. Why do we find it okay to tell the religious that they believe in a delusion, but not okay to tell this to a transgender?
Why do we find it okay to allow doctors to make money off mentally ill people to perform a sex change when that essentially counts as mutilating their body as a result of their delusion? — Harry Hindu
Transgenders have what is called a somatic delusion - where one believes that there is something wrong with their body.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Delusions.html
Why is it that we seem to allow some people to continue to hold their delusions, or even promote their delusional state, while others we try to "help" them overcome their delusions and see things as they truly are (that they are actually the gender they were born as). It comes down to "Is it moral to allow someone to continue believing in a lie, or to make them face the facts?" Would it be immoral to help reinforce their lie to themselves?
I would like to know how consistent people are in this. Why do we find it okay to tell the religious that they believe in a delusion, but not okay to tell this to a transgender? — Harry Hindu
Why do we find it okay to allow doctors to make money off mentally ill people to perform a sex change when that essentially counts as mutilating their body as a result of their delusion?
Now look I am not an a close-minded arsehole — intrapersona
Also, a transgender isn't pretending to be a woman. — Benkei
But I just can't for the life of me see any reason in why there is acceptance over such a thing in society. — intrapersona
people can do whatever the hell they please as long as it doesn't cause dis-ease or impact on to someone else's life. — intrapersona
if everyone was a transgender and/or gay that would mean no one would have babies (assuming IVF does not exist). — intrapersona
Yes but I'm talking about your discourse - you talk as if patriarchy is bad, and matriarchy is good - that's what your discourse is saying.It can be if you want it to be, but its the only sizable butch matriarchy left in the world today and their lifestyle is rather primitive. — wuliheron
Call me stupid, ignorant or morally fucked up but I for one fucking believe that biological sex is one and the same with gender! — Agustino
Evolutionary speaking your counterfactual example is absurd. You don't all of a sudden become a transgender so an entire society won't either. It's a deviation from the norm but that doesn't make it wrong. Down syndrome is a deviation too as is my red hair. Neither are reasons to condemn gingers or mentally retarded people as doing something wrong.
Also, a transgender isn't pretending to be a woman. You don't have to pretend to be who you are either do you? — Benkei
Well... just a teensy bit harsh, perhaps. If everyone were gay or transgendered, we would be in deep doo doo. Fortunately for the species' future the rate is quite low. Out of a population of 320 million, there are perhaps 3 to 5 million gay men and maybe a million transexuals in the US. That's a low rate. It's a lower rate than than the rate of heterosexuals who are not reproducing themselves. If you are worried about the future of the species, get on all those heterosexuals who aren't breeding.
These days we tend to not find ways in which we are all alike. We tend to find ways in which some of us are very different, and then we make a big deal out of the difference and the lack of acceptance. Like the enormous suffering of transgendered Somali community (all 3 of them in this town).
I think we would be better off understanding that gay people, celibate people, transgender people, and so on think, act, and function pretty much like everybody else in all sorts of consequential ways. Of course there are differences in sexual behavior between gay men and straight men, but compared to the similarities in occupational, intellectual, or recreational performance, sexual object choice is kind of minor. — Bitter Crank
Also, a transgender isn't pretending to be a woman. You don't have to pretend to be who you are either do you? — Benkei
That's "naturalistic fallacy". But there is an axiom, "evolution is always smarter than us". There may be valid reasons for a species to not be exclusively preoccupied with reproduction. — swstephe
There are theories that we all do exactly that anyway. Like Simone de Beauvoir says, "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman". In that sense, the social definition of "woman" is not biological, but how closely someone conforms to social expectations. But it is good that what you say means that "maturity" is rejecting pretension and choosing another role. — swstephe
Because a society which decides what is acceptable, (if it doesn't bother anyone else), is oppressive and nobody wants to live in an oppressive society? Does it have any benefit on society whatsoever to enforce arbitrary rules? If so, why not enforce even more arbitrary rules? — swstephe
Evolution has probably already found a balance for humanity, and strict binary gender roles apparently hasn't worked yet — swstephe
As above, I don't think we should be ruled by "rowdy disorder" or "social codes". I don't think it is moral relativism, but more apply the current standards of individual rights and responsibility. Once society takes on the role of decided what individuals are required to do, then it robs individuals of their rights and responsibility. We are no longer rational agents, but just extensions of some arbitrary social conventions.
In a way, maybe your reaction, (that a transgendered position), being so offensive is exactly the point. It is evolutionary pressure pushing back on being too restrictive, preventing us to adapt to novel conditions and experiences. If nobody ever dares behave in any way that might offend you, we might very well be headed for extinction for failure to adapt. — swstephe
Nice analogy. I'd never thought of it like that.For the same reason that we find it OK to allow doctors to make money from people requesting rhinoplasty. Some people are just uncomfortable with their body, and I see no reason to suggest that it is wrong to make changes to it. It's not like it's some holy object that ought be preserved in its natural state. — Michael
As Bitter Crank pointed out, it isn't really an important matter. Never lose the perspective, this surely isn't an issue of human survival.
All of these issues are far more used as examples how wrong the World has gone, how much that SJW mentality dominates us, how far too permissive the society has become, and because of this, it's going down the drain. Part of it is the age old idea of that our society has become decadent and loosing it's steam, has seen already it's best days, the Untergang des Abendlandes attitude. — ssu
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