How could it have? There's no agreed possible process via which DNA could have appeared. It certainly didn't evolve, as evolution depends on self-replication, only possible with DNA!DNA most likely evolved via Random processes
a holistic function — Gnomon
The Boss may not know exactly where those ideas and feelings came from, but merely judges : "sounds good to me", or "no, that will conflict with other goals". — Gnomon
I was talking about DeoxyRibonucleicAcid. The organic molecule that acts as a carrier of information (instructions, recipe) for construction of an organism.How could it have? There's no agreed possible process via which DNA could have appeared. It certainly didn't evolve, as evolution depends on self-replication, only possible with DNA! — Chris Hughes
Irony or Sarcasm or Tautology?one would also think that a whole can only be expressed as a Whole in a holistic way. Consciousness solved! — PoeticUniverse
My personal interpretation of Koch's IIT Consciousness --- in view of Dennett's "Multiple Drafts" model and Minsky's "Society of Mind" --- is that 98% of human behavior is carried-out by subconscious automatic instinctive & Intuitive processes. Which leaves only the most important 2% of decisions for the the CEO (the Conscious Whole) to approve or veto. It's only that final say-so (judgment) that we can truly call Free Will. At best, we are absentee (golf-course) executives. Otherwise, we are all philosophical zombies.Or it is that the Boss has no doing associated with it, per Koch, and the nonconscious guys continue to attend to the goings on by voting or whatnot. — PoeticUniverse
There is speculation about this, but no one yet knows how DNA came about. Those who brush aside this problem and its larger question are bending truth.
So, while DNA most likely evolved via Random processes, any meaning encoded in the chemistry is a product of Selection, which implements Intention.
FWIW, I just came across an old blog post that specifically addresses the differences between Sheldrake's Morphogenesis theory and my own theory of Enformationism.Having read and agreed with radical biologist Rupert Sheldake, whose views, I'd say, coinicide with Idealism, — Chris Hughes
Irony or Sarcasm or Tautology? — Gnomon
Free Will — Gnomon
With all the thinking/doing of the brain areas already done and finished and represented as qualia, sequential consciousness is too late in the cycle to do any conscious thinking of its own, but the cycle continues…
... you say:Paul Davies on Morphogenesis : http://bothandblog6.enformationism.info/page8.html
... and you quote physicist and cosmologist Paul Davies as saying:I... speculate that human culture has arisen at this mid-point of the evolutionary arc in order to take over the management of enforming the world. Does this mean that the development of our universe is not random & pointless, but intentional & goal-oriented?
(From The Demon in the Machine: How Hidden Webs of Information Are Solving the Mystery of Life by Paul Davies)... if the emergence of life, and perhaps mind, are etched into the underlying lawfulness nature, it would bestow upon our existence as living, thinking beings a type of cosmic-level meaning.
Yes. The selection criteria for evolution are encoded in the universal laws of Math/Logic/Physics and in the Initial Conditions. So the geometric shape of a roof can passively divide random raindrops into two categories, which will determine the future direction of flow. But the "intention" I mentioned was in the mind of the encoder/programmer, who tilted the playing field in order to influence the outcome without presetting all the intermediate details. Thus, allowing a degree of freedom within determinism.Selection determinator can be passive and inanimate against some dynamics, like A shaped roof selects which raindrops go to one or the other side. So evolutionary selector can be amount of light, heat, acidity... stuff like that. — Zelebg
Too late at the momement, but maybe not for the next time — Zelebg
Yes. My personal consciousness is intrinsic to my body as a holon. But Cosmic Consciousness of the ALL is intrinsic to the universe as a whole. In my thesis, the physical universe is analogous to the fleshly body of a conscious human. But the quality of consciousness is not located in any part of the world. So, you could say that it's "floating around" out there in the great beyond. In other words, immaterial Consciousness is non-local. :smile:It's physically based and so is not floating around as an 'All' or such. Koch adds in a footnote that it is intrinsic in the sense of being internal, but not in the sense of something like mass — PoeticUniverse
If you are referring to the time gap between intention and action as determined by Benjamin Libet, his results can be interpreted as allowing time for an intentional veto. Thus, retaining a role for agency in the ongoing cycle of life. :cool:With all the thinking/doing of the brain areas already done and finished and represented as qualia, sequential consciousness is too late in the cycle to do any conscious thinking of its own, but the cycle continues… — PoeticUniverse
Yes. My worldview is similar to Panpsychism, but I prefer to use the abstract term "Information" in reference to the enformed structure of the world, in place of "Consciousness" or "Psyche". That's because some people imagine that rocks & atoms are conscious in the same sense that humans are. Physicists sometimes speak metaphorically about a particle "feeling" a force. But they don't mean it literally.So perhaps consciousness, as well as being how we see the world, is what the world, the multiverse, is made of: the unifying field, full of meaning, as in our Goldilocks planet - and the non-random appearance of DNA. — Chris Hughes
But the "intention" I mentioned was in the mind of the encoder/programmer, who tilted the playing field in order to influence the outcome without presetting all the intermediate details. Thus, allowing a degree of freedom within determinism.
Benjamin Libet, his results can be interpreted as allowing time for an intentional veto. — Gnomon
Yes, it makes no sense we just happen to exist. — Zelebg
Yes. My personal consciousness is intrinsic to my body as a holon. But Cosmic Consciousness of the ALL is intrinsic to the universe as a whole. In my thesis, the physical universe is analogous to the fleshly body of a conscious human. But the quality of consciousness is not located in any part of the world. So, you could say that it's "floating around" out there in the great beyond. In other words, immaterial Consciousness is non-local. :smile: — Gnomon
The only reasonable answer to that fundamental question is "creation" ex nihilo. Which is why I assume that the Creator must exist eternally outside of space-time (i.e. nothingness). In Eternity, all things are possible. But in space-time only some things are actual. In the Real World creation ex nihilo is impossible, hence magical. From our perspective in the conditional world, the Creator is a magician, capable of doing the physically impossible.However you turn it around it doesn't make sense because the real question underneath is - why is there something rather than nothing? And whatever answer goes there must seem magical to us. — Zelebg
True. Consciousness is a function : no form, no function.Well, my consciousness depends on my brain, body, etc., else there isn't any. — PoeticUniverse
Prove it! :grin:Also, I confess that I am an automon. — PoeticUniverse
So, you think the subconscious is a perfect democracy, with no executive to overrule the voters with a veto? Maybe you are an automaton. :smile:The 'veto' isn't done by consciousness. — PoeticUniverse
The only reasonable answer to that fundamental question is "creation" ex nihilo. Which is why I assume that the Creator must exist eternally outside of space-time (i.e. nothingness). I
That's a bit strong. There's much talk, in the Land of Metaphysics, of what is or may be beyond time and space. Like Donald Trump, for instance.To exist outside of the time is to exist never. To exist outside of space is to exist nowhere. It means it does not exist and that it never existed. If this simple logic is not obvious there is really no point in talking about this anymore, or about anything really.
Well, my consciousness depends on my brain, body, etc., else there isn't any.
That's a bit strong as well, Count. What would be left?... let’s do away with consciousness altogether
That's a bit strong as well, Count. What would be left?
So... let's deny the possibility of dimensions beyond time and space; and let's continue this discussion without consciousness. Forum, where are your defenders?
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