Mexico is doing quite a bit along the border. They recently sent 15,000 troops there to slow northern migration at great expense. Sure they aren’t handing over cash for a wall, but they are now doing their part where they weren’t before. It’s working. So it turns out to be a great policy. — NOS4A2
The wall is to hinder the ones who hop the border, not the ones who overstay their visas. — NOS4A2
That’s the problem, I think, is Trump’s expressions strikes fear into people who would rather not think about politics, but would much rather be lulled by glittering generalities and euphemism. People are thinking about politics now, some for the first time in their lives. — NOS4A2
That has nothing to do with the wall, as you well know.
Says who? You?
That's as patently absurd as claiming all Trump supporters are idiots who only vote for Trump because they know him from TV.
Sure it does. The actions by the Mexican governments are directly contributing to lower illegal immigration over the border, saving American’s money at great expense to the Mexican government. — NOS4A2
Hopefully you do too. Arguing that building a wall doesn’t work because there are a lot of illegals overstaying visas is absurd because a wall is not intended to stop or hinder the flow of illegals overstaying visas. — NOS4A2
Those two arguments are not even analogous. — NOS4A2
And all achieved without a wall, or anything related to funding a wall. So where is the connection, exactly?
The analogous part is painting your political opposition with a single broad, condescending brush.
Given that Russia is pretty much trying to annex it, absolutely. I'm not too interested in allowing Putin to reconstruct the Soviet Union... — VagabondSpectre
Bring on the vote, I say. — Wayfarer
Donald J Trump is really an Enemy of the State — Wayfarer
I dont think that's possible. — frank
So you don't think America should be giving military aid and assistance to Ukraine? — VagabondSpectre
I don't understand why we are. How would it impact us if Russia defeated them? Wouldnt the lives of Ukranians improve in the absence of war?
let the voters decide — creativesoul
Mexico is paying for it. — NOS4A2
I said “people who would rather not think about politics”. You said “all Trump supporters”. Not even close. — NOS4A2
What is this nonsense? Anything the Mexicans are paying for is now related to Trump's promise of building a wall?
How would anything that Mexico does now be different if Trump never promised a wall?
Ok, let's play that game: who are the people who would rather not think about politics? What's their stance toward Trump?
I’m just saying that Mexico is paying for American border security. You can thank Trump for that. — NOS4A2
To you “people” means all Trump’s opponents. Play that game all you want. — NOS4A2
Maybe you're living a parallel universe, but can you back this claim up in any manner or form?
But you were attempting to defend Trumps promise of building a wall. So what does any of this have to do with the wall idea?
I don't understand why we are. — frank
How would it impact us if Russia defeated them? — frank
Wouldnt the lives of Ukranians improve in the absence of war? — frank
So I guess then your line isn't about illegal immigrants in general, just specific illegal immigrants. Very poor illegal immigrants?Again, the equivocating is silly. If you overstay a visa you’ve gone through the necessary security points and shown documents. If you hop a border you’ve avoided going through security and showing documents. The wall is to hinder the ones who hop the border, not the ones who overstay their visas. — NOS4A2
It's mostly about a long-term geo-political strategy to counter the re-emergence of Russia as a rival super-power. To some degree it's also about making good on America's alliances. — VagabondSpectre
It would weaken western economic strength and strategic position, and strengthen that of Russia. — VagabondSpectre
If we're to consider the Ukranian people (and if there's any validity to the moral premise of America as herald and protector of democracy) then the U.S might be right to counter Russian aggression/infiltration/influence. It depends on what Russia would decide to take as victory spoils, and the measures it would use to stay in control. — VagabondSpectre
It's not a question of whether or not Trump was engaging in a quid pro quo. He was. The question is whether or not it benefited just Trump, or more than just Trump. — Harry Hindu
President Donald Trump says he lifted his freeze on aid to Ukraine on Sept. 11, but the State Department had quietly authorized releasing $141 million of the money several days earlier, according to five people familiar with the matter.
The State Department decision, which hasn’t been reported previously, stemmed from a legal finding made earlier in the year, and conveyed in a classified memorandum to Secretary of State Michael Pompeo. State Department lawyers found the White House Office of Management and Budget, and thus the president, had no legal standing to block spending of the Ukraine aid.
What about Biden and the Obama administration's quid pro quo with the Ukranians - in withholding aid in until they fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma and Biden's son? — Harry Hindu
In the excerpted portion of the clip, Biden was discussing his efforts on behalf of the Obama administration to pressure Ukraine into to prosecuting corruption and firing Viktor Shokin, an ineffective prosecutor. That effort by Biden has been used by Trump supporters to argue, inaccurately, that Biden single-handedly had Shokin fired because Shokin was investigating Burisma, a Ukrainian group of energy exploration and production companies of which Biden’s son Hunter was a board member.
However, Shokin was not fired for investigating Burisma, but for his failure to pursue corruption investigations — including investigations connected to Burisma. And Biden wasn’t alone in the effort to push Shokin out, but rather was spearheading the Obama administration’s policy, which represented a consensus among diplomats, officials from various European countries, and the International Monetary Fund that Shokin was an impediment to rooting out corruption in his country
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