Nevertheless, it is what's true that philosophy is concerned with regardless of any therapeutic benefits believing it may or may not have. — Bartricks
But it appears often to be rational. If my partner dies, then I have reason to grieve her death. If there was a pill that would make me forget all about her, then I ought not to take it. — Bartricks
I take philosophy to be inquiry into what's true and its method to be reasoned argument. — Bartricks
Stoics think grief is irrational. — Bartricks
People around us will die and it will hurt. Often, quite badly.
The question for the Stoics then was how to make sense of this fact, how to come to terms with it. How does one deal with the natural grief that loss provokes?
The Stoics are often stereotyped as suppressing their emotions, but their philosophy was actually intended to teach us to face, process, and deal with emotions immediately instead of running from them. Tempting as it is to deceive yourself or hide from a powerful emotion like grief— by telling yourself and other people that you’re fine—awareness and understanding are better.
...philosophy as I - and I think most contemporary analytic philosophers - conceive it is not about being wise, but about figuring out what's true. — Bartricks
Hi Wallows - I don't intend to compete with this excellent set of questions.
However, I'd like to comment on what you've written so far, if that's OK.
I have sympathy with the view that Stoicism can be seen as secular spirituality with religious overtones.
Re: 'How to be a Stoic':
I read in an interview that Massimo talked of Epictetus as 'playing the role of his personal 'daimon'. This reminded me of Socrates' 'daemonion' who kept him on the right track. This seems to be spiritual if not divine in nature.
It would be interesting to ask just how Massimo has his Conversations with Epictetus ? Is it 'spiritual' in that Epictetus is seen as some kind of 'God' - or is it by a close, analytical reading of the Discourses.
There does seem to an evangelical zeal involved. Having said that, perhaps it is warranted so as to balance out the extremism of certain religious beliefs.
I like the idea of life as an ongoing project. Massimo has shown how an individual's life can be changed by conscious reflection ( 'Know Thyself' ) and a bit of serendipity. From being a scientist, going through a midlife crisis, to being a personable, pragmatic, public philosopher of Stoicism.
Re: the Athens TED talk and the role model of Nelson Mandela. I didn't know that he had been inspired by Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. I love that ! He speaks to me too.
I do see philosophy, in particular Stoicism, as a practical way to progress wellbeingness. (Massimo points out the overlap in psychology and psychiatry. Also, the importance of an evidence-based approach. It's all good ).
From the Meditations 5.9:
'Do not give up in disgust or impatience if you do not find action on the right principles consolidated into a habit in all that you do. No: if you have taken a fall, come back again, and be glad if most of your actions are on the right side of humanity.
Do not come back to philosophy as schoolboy to a tutor but rather as a man with opthalmia returns to his sponge and salve...obedience to reason is no great burden, but a source of relief.'
[ My bolds: In other words, you can only do your best ! ]
Finally, this quote:
'I have a habit of reflecting about my feelings and experiences...adjusting what I actually do and what I want to do in a neverending exercise of reflective equilibrium' - Massimo Pigliucci.
How inspirational is that ?
The forthcoming discussions should be fabulous.
But what's that got to do with the price of tea in China? To what extent a view resonates with you, or bears similarity to another view, has nothing whatever to do with its truth. — Bartricks
Okay, maybe. But that is just a point about the therapeutic benefits of believing certain things and is not evidence of the truth of the beliefs in question. — Bartricks
I take philosophy to be inquiry into what's true and its method to be reasoned argument.
It is not, then, a form of therapy. — Bartricks
So, if all that can be said about a stoic worldview is that it has therapeutic benefits, then it is not a worldview that should interest a true philosopher — Bartricks
What about banality? Well, let's say that Stoicism is the view that we ought to cultivate the virtues. Well, now it is banal, for virtues just are character traits that it is good and right to cultivate in oneself and in others. So now it is saying just "it is good to be good". Yes, it is. But we knew that already. — Bartricks
The entire point of the philosophy is its therapeutic benefits — Pantagruel
What about banality? Well, let's say that Stoicism is the view that we ought to cultivate the virtues. Well, now it is banal, for virtues just are character traits that it is good and right to cultivate in oneself and in others. So now it is saying just "it is good to be good". Yes, it is. But we knew that already.
— Bartricks
I think the nature of goodness is difficult to pin down. There's much controversy about what the definition of "good" is. "Virtue" seems an easier target, a safer bet so to speak, if one wanted to talk about ethics. — TheMadFool
Taking a pill to forget that the grief-causing event happened complicates the scenario, because most people would choose not to forget even if they would choose not to hurt. — Pfhorrest
Sure, you can define philosophy as the analytic philosophers do; but that is just one small subsection of philosophy — Janus
Firstly there being a pill that makes you forget all about your partner (if you mean to literally have no memories of her or him) is not the same as a pill that would relieve your grief and allow you to focus on the happy memories. — Janus
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