The consensus tends to shift historically according to access to resources, or in cases of intergroup conflict in which groups tend to 'dehumanise' each other and thereby suspend 'moral action' towards them. Selectivity also operates within society and gives rise to 'inequality' issues. — fresco
'Conscience ' is the term we use for sometimes uncomfortable internal dialogue indulged in between different facets of 'self' with different agenda's not all of which correspond to consensual norms. — fresco
Consensual norms are what fluctuates, not the individual moral view of things. — Brett
'morality' is a statistical bundle of empathic consensual behaviors which may have evolutionary advantages for species or group survival — fresco
The idea of caring for others, the value of life, was not created by Christianity, it had to exist first. Just like the idea, I believe, that caring for others is in human nature and not some sort of contrived idea for keeping the peace, something contrived to contribute towards your survival over others.
Our capacities for caring, our morals, where do they come from? We didn’t invent them. “To invent or create anything, you must already have both very specific wants and equally specific powers” (Midgley, Heart and Mind). Wanting something must happen before choosing. Caring must come before the world it shapes.
I’m aware my whole premise rests on this being true, and I recall other conversations about this that became a long slog. But I can only make my case on what I believe to be true. So I’m arguing my case on the basis of this being true.
What I’m positing is that this is who we are. It’s not a subjective idea of ourselves. Morality is the objective reality and it addresses all the questions about what’s real so that we can know who we are, what’s important and how we should live. — Brett
Through a belief in God people accepted an objective reality, even though they did not, or could not, separate subjectivity from objectivity, or were even aware that the world could be looked at in that way. To deny God was to tear away the security of a greater power that acted on the world and guided us. — Brett
Why do you say they could not separate subjectivity from objectivity. — christian2017
With my 'pragmatists hat' on, I don't do 'reality' ...only 'utility'. So for me the concept of 'morality' stands or falls on the basis of its utility, which is related to the context of its usage...i.e. the norms of 'good' interactional behaviour expected by a society. — fresco
or 'humanity is special' due to its conceptualization behaviour via language which reifies concepts like 'morality' and 'existence' by the consensual use of persistent 'words'. — fresco
The idea of caring for others, the value of life, was not created by Christianity, it had to exist first. Just like the idea, I believe, that caring for others is in human nature and not some sort of contrived idea for keeping the peace, something contrived to contribute towards your survival over others.
Our capacities for caring, our morals, where do they come from? We didn’t invent them. — Brett
So if you did not know of these things and they developed over a long period of time, in spite of yourself, from a combination of the things individuals had in them, could they really be called subjective actions or thoughts? — Brett
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