You need for me to give you good reason for believing that Reason is not the sort of thing that is capable of making assertions? Really? — creativesoul
Assertions are assertions of thought and belief. Reason is not the sort of thing that has thought and belief or asserts it — creativesoul
Er, yeah - this is a philosophy thread. I made an argument. — Bartricks
Tell. Me. How. My. View. Is. Inconsistent. With. Dialetheism.
I. Think. You. Can't. Do. That. — Bartricks
But know that you're not doing philosophy when you do that. — Bartricks
According to your definition of philosophy, which is necessarily limited by your unshakeable faith in Reason. — Possibility
Gosh, I thought you'd distinguish between Reason and reason - it was your distinction in the first place.No, absolutely not. If the argument of the OP goes through - and so far no one has challenged either its validity of the truth of its assumptions - then truth is constituted by Reason's assertions. — Bartricks
Indeed, how does Reason assert anything?How could a set of tools assert anything? — Bartricks
Ah, here we go. Same question, how does Reason do these things?Reason is the asserter, bidder, commander. Reason and 'reason' are distinct, just as sight and 'the things seen' are distinct. — Bartricks
And we're answered. Of course, if minds alone assert things, and Reason and mind are not coterminous, then mind and Reason are not the same, and if mind asserts, then Reason doesn't, and vice versa.Now, it follows from this that Reason is a mind, a person. For Reason asserts things - and those assertions constitute truth - and among the things that Reason asserts, it would seem, is that minds and minds alone assert things. — Bartricks
Let's set aside the circularity in this, because I don't think that's necessarily fatal.
— tim wood
No, before setting it aside describe it - what circularity? — Bartricks
That is, when do we have true X? When X is true! How do we know? Mind tells us, or Reason tells us; in any case, we're told. How does mind or reason know? Well, because it's true. Now, this wouldn't be so much a problem if the question were whether a given proposition were true - in that case no doubt we could figure it out based on particulars, & etc. But you argue this way on a general "theory of truth." Now make clear how it works.For surely it is a good idea to ask the question "when would we be satisfied that we have the true theory of truth on our hands?" And what is the answer to that question? Well, that we - we who are using reason to find out what's true - will be satisfied when it is clear to us all that Reason asserts the theory in question to be true.
— Bartricks
Either locate a fallacy, or dispute a premise. — Bartricks
You're not very good with the spatiotemporal aspects of your own worldview are you? — creativesoul
Both of those endeavors are existentially dependent upon having an argument with premisses clearly demarcated. Otherwise, I'm shooting blind-folded. — creativesoul
Indeed, how does Reason assert anything? — tim wood
Reason has her perspective of what is true - it’s a limited perspective, but she’s not aware of this - and she ignores and excludes new information that cannot be reduced to logical argument.
— Possibility
Flagrantly question begging. Reason constitutively determines what's true - that's what my argument appeared to demonstrate. Now, if you think otherwise engage with that argument - challenge either its validity or one of its assumptions. Don't just state a different view, as if evidence counts for nothing. — Bartricks
It's in the OP. Look, it isn't my fault you don't actually know what an argument is.
Let's go though it, shall we - baby steps.
The question is "what is truth?"
Because no-one currently seems to know - there are several theories, but none enjoys universal support among those who are clever enough to be paid to think about such matters - it is worthwhile stepping back a mo and asking a slightly different question: when would all of those clever enough to be paid to think about such things be happy with an answer? They're not currently, but when would they be?
Well, surely they would all be happy with an answer when it is clear to the reason of all of them that the answer is endorsed by Reason - that is, when their reason represents the answer to be true. — Bartricks
Now, that's one of my 'assumptions'. Challenge it if you like. I think you won't succeed, but by all means try. — Bartricks
What else is there other than our experience and observation of what is and isn't? — ep3265
Reason does assert things! "If a proposition is true, do not also believe it is false" - that's an assertion. — Bartricks
You're granting too much... even here. The 'ole chap is not even using the term "Reason" in accordance with it's original usage. — creativesoul
premise 1: Reason makes assertions
Premise 2: Minds and only minds make assertions
Conclusion: therefore Reason is a mind
Which premise is false? And provide evidence, don't just blurt. — Bartricks
Is it reasonable for you to consider, just for a moment, the possibility that there might be more to reality than what appeals to Reason - the possibility that your perspective of reality might be limited in some way? That is, before you summarily dismiss that thought on account of it failing to appeal to Reason, of course... — Possibility
Address the argument I gave. You're not humble if, when confronted with overwhelming evidence that a proposition is true, you continue to take seriously that it is false.
That's what religious people are like. You show them that the evidence indicates their god does not exist. They then pretend they're the reasonable ones if they continue to take seriously that the god does exist.
No, they're not being reasonable - they're just ignoring evidence.
Now, perhaps their god does exist - perhaps there's excellent evidence their god exists.
the point, though, is that a reasonable person does not ignore evidence and keep playing the 'but let's be reasonable and accept the possibility the view is false". That ain't being reasonable, sonny boy, not when evidence has been given that it is true.
Now, engage with that evidence - that is, try and refute my argument. — Bartricks
I am mocking you. — Bartricks
all the way into the quality of my objections and/or your purported 'arguments'. — creativesoul
Any and all arguments appeal to apparent assertions of Reason. So it cannot coherently be denied that Reason makes assertions. — Bartricks
Again, if the most we can ever say in support of any view about anything - including any view about what truth is - is that it appears to be being asserted by Reason... — Bartricks
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