Debating ideology really brings out the worst in some people.

I wasn't brought up believing so many people were so stupid. I have learned there's no accounting for the views and actions of stupid people. It seems, however, we're becoming - if we haven't been all along - a world where stupidity itself shall have to be outlawed, to the end of forcing people not to do stupid things.

Issues of climate change are "ideological" issues?

A "fuck you greta" movement is an inevitable reactionary event. I agree with Greta 100%, but I don't especially like listening to her talk. I can imagine how repellant she must be to global warming deniers, environmental-disaster-know-nothings, followers of our fucking president, and the like.

ideology — Tzeentch

per @Tim Wood, since when is global warming an "ideology"?

Issues of climate change are "ideological" issues? — tim wood

I'd say when we let children do the talking for us, we have definitely left the realm of rational thought.

I'd say when we let children do the talking for us, we have definitely left the realm of rational thought. — Tzeentch

I suppose you think Trump (and his motley band of all-grown-ups) the paragon of rationality.

What precisely do you find irrational in Greta's plea?

I'd say when we let children do the talking for us, we have definitely left the realm of rational thought. — Tzeentch

Obviously, then, you'd pay zero attention to any canary in your mineshaft, because of course the owners of the mine have assured you its all safe, and rumors of danger are just fake news, which you embrace out of a variant of Stockholm syndrome, and because your goal in life is to be the best possible intellectual sock-puppet you can be.

And what law says that children are not rational agents?

a variant of Stockholm syndrome — tim wood

Interesting take.

Well, Ms. Thunberg is a lightening rod, as much as an oracle. A young woman who suddenly appears (in the media--Aspergers and all), somehow has a sailboat to get to New York and then Spain, and has the nerve to speak truth to power (or shame adults, at least) and whose self-presentation is quite juvenile (meaning as young as possible) is going to trigger negative comment. I've harbored some suspicious thoughts about her -- like, what or who in her background made all this possible? 15 or 16 year olds don't launch themselves, usually.

It doesn't matter, really. The guilty parties (major hydrocarbon producers and consumers) aren't listening anyway, and when they act it is to subvert the effort to reduce CO2 and Methane production. It's not Greta's fault. The fault is with they who have eyes but will not see, they who have ears and will not hear.

Only one group is screaming “apocalypse” while glueing themselves to buildings and streets.

I suppose you think Trump (and his motley band of all-grown-ups) the paragon of rationality. — ZzzoneiroCosm

Ah yes, lets play the "supposing" game. That will certainly help the discussion.

What precisely do you find irrational in Greta's plea? — ZzzoneiroCosm

Blaming the world for "stealing her childhood", for one.

Blaming the world for "stealing her childhood", for one. — Tzeentch

Is that all?

Well, I live in the Netherlands, so in a sense I am the canary in the mineshaft, since sea level rise should have put half the country underwater. But so far, nothing.

And what law says that children are not rational agents? — tim wood

Greta does start by saying "This is all wrong. I shouldn't be up here. I should be back in school." and she sure is right about that.

Only one group is screaming “apocalypse” while glueing themselves to buildings and streets. — NOS4A2

The other group is screaming various batshit crazy conspiracies theories of which Greta is merely a puppet.

The other group is screaming various batshit crazy conspiracies theories and in which which Greta is merely a puppet.

Let me know when they fawn over a teenager and become activists in her name.

since sea level rise should have put half the country underwater — Tzeentch

Can you direct me to the scientific study suggesting the Netherlands should be half-underwater?

A child should not be put on public display like this, nor should she be ridiculed and personally attacked. But apparently, this is our public discourse now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

That's not a scientific study. That's a wikipedia page having precisely zip to do with it. I control-F'ed "climate" and "rise" and - precisely zip.

Show me a scientific study suggesting the Netherlands should be half-underwater.

Go bark commands at someone else. Or better yet, google "map Netherlands below sea level" and you should understand.

Or better yet, google "map Netherlands below sea level" and you should understand. — Tzeentch

I Googled it but failed to find a scientific study addressing the effects of climate change on sea-level rise in the Netherlands.

Take a guess why that is.

Take a guess why that is. — Tzeentch

Because climate change and sea-level rise are a hoax.

https://www.vn.nl/rising-sea-levels-netherlands/

If you have children, read this to them tonight at bedtime.

"The success of this adaptation will to a large extent determine the viability of the Dutch society as a whole."

https://www.jcronline.org/doi/10.2112/07A-0010.1


etc

If you have children, read this to them tonight at bedtime. — ZzzoneiroCosm

They do enjoy fairy tales, but not the left-wing pseudo-intellectual kind.

'It was beneficial in morphological terms during the mid-Holocene, but from Roman times, it has been a threat to the coastal zone evolution and human habitation."

Bloody Romans and their carbon emissions!

Again, no one in the Netherlands takes this seriously. It plays no part in political discourse. If the sea level had been significantly rising, we'd be the first to notice.

If the sea level had been significantly rising, we'd be the first to notice. — Tzeentch

So a climate denier. Good. End of discussion.

...no one in the Netherlands takes this seriously... — Tzeentch

No one in your little bubble.

Again, no one in the Netherlands takes this seriously. — Tzeentch

That's quite a statement. Are you quite sure that no one in the Netherlands takes climate change seriously?

I was talking about sea level rise.

I haven't gone door to door to ask every citizens whether sea level rise keeps them awake at night, if that's what you're asking.

I'm generally opposed to vulgarities in public, whether they say things I agree with (like "Fuck the Racists") or things I disagree with (like, "Fuck those who aren't Racists"). So, I side with those who enforce the decorum from a formality perspective, but not with those who feel the messenger gets a pass because of her status. She spoke clothed as an adult, elevated to the status of one who mattered, and given the podium as any adult.

From time to time I defend lawsuits brought by parents for their children, alleging sometimes bogus injuries from car accidents. They get no special consideration due to their youth. They can take as much money from my clients' pockets as any adult, so the defense against them can be no less vigorous.

So, if I felt Greta's words deserved a hearty "fuck off" had they been spoken by an old shrew, she gets it too. If little old insignificant Greta doesn't deserve an unfiltered response, then she doesn't deserve a spot speaking at the UN.