In the US we dont trust simple majorities to decide things. Would you argue that we should?
Should a simple majority decide who the president is? — frank
This question strikes me as a strained attempt to bring about a discussion about the electoral college. — Hanover
You may be right, as I am clearly on one side of the argument. I would like to debate it with someone on the other side but they haven't turned up. I don't think that you would be able to say that I don't understand the arguments though, or don't rehearse them.but I do think there's some denial in this thread that perhaps the voters actually voted exactly as they wanted, as they believed, and they did it with their eyes wide open
So when push comes to shove, I expect he will put party before country again and push his new converts under the bus. But these people might be the very people he needs to keep onside if he is to save the party. — Punshhh
Regardless, I'm fine with the current system of both countries, and do believe the decisions of elections represent the will of the people, controlled by various rules designed to protect minority interests or whatnot. — Hanover
Ah, you mean how that significant remain minority doesn't get to remain? — Benkei
I can't see the likelihood that the Tory's can recruit sufficient numbers from anyone under 45 years old, — Punshhh
Poison? The only poison has been fed to that metropolitan socialist elite and the younger 'educated' voter. It's their hubris, the idea that some of the previous supporters have been duped, that is the problem it. You have it totally the wrong way., I would add that the drip feeding of anti socialism poison goes right back to the origin of the Labour Party and has become endemic now everywhere except for the metropolitan socialist elite and the younger educated voter. — Punshhh
Oh the right wing media...is (ghasp) against a labour candidate? And it's ugly?Well the evidence is there in print, the bias and attack of any consideration of socialism by the right wing media. — Punshhh
And could you think of a reason for this? Or is it a huge conspiracy?The magazine Socialist Worker, the only populist left wing paper I know of was desolved in April this year. — Punshhh
But?There is one left leaning mainstream newspaper The Gardian, but this paper gives politically balanced intellectual analysis of politics and is only left leaning by contrast to the right wing papers which predominate. It is widely regarded as having the highest standards of reporting in the UK. — Punshhh
I predict a shift to the left as the demographic changes — Punshhh
Sure, but above with Blair you have a former leader of the Labour party saying: "The door was locked to those elements with a kind of 'not wellcome' sign on the door. And the truth is now because the leadership is from that tradition, the door is with a wellcome mat. And what's happened is you have had a whole lot of people come in to the Labour Party with these views" Later he says that singling out Israel "seeps into anti-semitism".Tbh when ever I see cries of ‘anti-semitism’ I assume they’re false. The reason being when I’ve looked further they are usually comments taken out of context and/or criticisms of the Israeli government. — I like sushi
My beef in this is that I am anti-Brexit and Corbyn was our best hope in somehow stopping it. — Punshhh
Well, there might be reason why especially from the historical point of view people would oppose socialism. It hasn't been all dancing on roses and happiness. In my family, two of my great grandfathers were nearly killed by the Red Guard during our War of Independence. They were defined to be the 'class enemy' by the dictatorship of the proletariat, hence the violent side of marxism (and especially Trotskyism) is something really true and not something that "just got understood the wrong way". And my grandfathers fought the Soviets in WW2. Back then the Workers Paradise was intent on annexing my little country. (The other grandfather was a surgeon, so he didn't literally fight).Ok, I'm listening, but the original point I was making that you replied to was about a long term (over a 100 year period) stream of anti socialism dogma. I wasn't really referring to recent developments, but rather that recent developments sit on the top of an edifice of anti socialist dogma and prejudice, Comy', Marxist, Trotskyist. They will let the Comy's in by the back door. — Punshhh
But this is politics 1.0. It's basically quite arrogant not to understand how the other side will take your views. A mainstream party ought to look at what it says.I am aware of Blair's thoughts on this and accept that there is some anti-semitism in the Labour Party, but not as much as claimed by the media. The subtlety of the disitinction between "anti-Israeli foreign policy" sentiment and "anti-Israel" sentiment. Has been exploited by critics and sometimes mistakenly blurred by those being criticised. — Punshhh
I'm not sure if he was your best hope. I put my hope on politicians that take extremely seriously and treat with respect the people who oppose them and think differently. Far too often we just dismiss the opposing views and start to believe our own biased views.My beef in this is that I am anti-Brexit and Corbyn was our best hope in somehow stopping it. — Punshhh
Perhaps if a remain alliance had been formed and they had held back in their manifesto, which was seen as to good to be true. I lay the blame for a failure to do either of these at the door of Corbyn and McDonnell respectively.If he’d resigned several months ago, then yeah. If and buts don’t matter now.
I'm not sure I completely understand this comment, but I think you're saying I want to kill the minority. I deny that charge. — Hanover
But this is politics 1.0. It's basically quite arrogant not to understand how the other side will take your views. A mainstream party ought to look at what it says.
Where exactly are those rules you mentioned to protect minorities then? — Benkei
I gave my reasons for why that won't happen, in my opinion. Although I expect a proportion to switch for financial reasons like, pensions, or inheritance tax relief. But I see a loss of confidence in the usefulness of a free market capitalist model following the global financial crisis.They'll just wait for them to turn 45 years old. Older people are more conservative because they like the way things were, even though things weren't like the way they remembered them. I can say this because I'm over 45 and I remember things being better even though they weren't.
Talking about views on the Brexit issue, can anyone name a tangible benefit to leaving the EU? — Punshhh
My point is that real change is very difficult to bring about in the American system, and it seems the same in the UK, where they've been bickering about Brexit long after they supposedly decided to exit. — Hanover
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