• Athen Goh
    5
    (please ignore my harsh manner of speech) (i mean no harm nor offence)
    Why would we need a god to exist? What is wrong in believing in the true calculated spontaneity of science, that we simply just came into existence? That two nude humans didn't fuck and start humanity?

    People always say that there are things that science can't explain, and it is such a shit, desperate excuse that it might be to blame for the loss of some brain cells in certain people. Why do they simply not realise that science is an ever-expanding subject, that we may just have not discovered an explanation to said happening that 'science can't explain'. Why can we not come to embrace science as the true culprit of existence? The gears of a great, infinite clock? Because, the belief of God, and religion itself, in general, is a clock without gears. Science is calculated and requires proper thought and experimentation whilst religion is full of dogma and false explanations. Just a few centuries ago, we believed diseases to have been brought by the devil!

    And so, I propose that religion (except, maybe Confucianism), was created to provide explanations for the naturally occurring events that brought about such awe and fear that in order to console our selves, we began making up stories and tales to console ourselves. The feeling that we felt, was the same feeling that we get reading H.P Lovecraft's stories, that feeling of 'cosmic horror', that knowledge of something incomprehensible and bigger than us, like when we think of the infinity of space. And that groups of us, are just holding on to different variations of the same dogma, because of tradition and that it is now the norm. But no more, for we are NO LONGER cavemen hiding it out in caves, we are modern HUMANS with a SOCIETY and SCIENCE. We no longer need to hold on to these ramblings of an old man!

    So yeah, please don't hurt me in the comments boi ;-;
  • Wittgenstein
    442


    Considering your scientism, You might as well as build a temple of science and bow down before all your "idols" .

    Why do we need religion when we have science ?
    It's like saying, Why have food when we have water
  • Athen Goh
    5
    dude, exactly, we can replace god with science, because you do not worship science, because everybody is equal and there is no spirit in the sky, man, but yeah. Maybe God exists, I guess.
  • leo
    882
    we can replace god with science, because you do not worship science, because everybody is equal and there is no spirit in the sky, manAthen Goh

    Don’t you see that people invoke science to say that people aren’t equal?

    Also, both scientific and religious conclusions are based on empirical evidence and on beliefs.

    As one example of belief shared by many who believe in Science, the idea you mentioned that everything that happens in existence reduces to laws, that everything behaves according to these laws. That’s a belief. The fact that some things seem to follow laws does not imply that everything follows laws. You can assume it if you like, and try to explain everything in terms of laws, but don’t pretend it is less of a belief than the idea that a being is responsible for these laws and that not everything reduces to these laws.

    Science and God aren’t incompatible. If you believe they are incompatible, that’s a belief not backed by empirical evidence.
  • Wayfarer
    22.3k
    cavemen with smartphones, more like it.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.1k
    People always say that there are things that science can't explain, and it is such a shit, desperate excuse that it might be to blame for the loss of some brain cells in certain people. Why do they simply not realise that science is an ever-expanding subject, that we may just have not discovered an explanation to said happening that 'science can't explain'.Athen Goh

    I think that what happened is that some people came to understand that there are things beyond the limits of understanding through science, because they are beyond the capacity for empirical observation of the human being. These people still had the desire to understand these things, to take their minds where science couldn't go, past the dead ends and road blocks which ancient science came up against, toward understanding the vast reality of what lies hidden beyond the limitations which are the premises of science.

    However, there was still many people who had the attitude such as what is expressed above, by you. So the people with the desire to expand their understanding of reality beyond the limitations inherent within the principles of science, had to create the notion of God and religion, to gather the resources necessary for that crusade.
  • Nils Loc
    1.4k
    Science doesn't ultimately explain what all this is. It just leverages knowledge about things to do other things people need or want at some cost.

    We are still left with why any of this is occurring (or not). This is not a question that can be satisfactorily answered. The impulse to ask this kind of why is no different than the impulse to pull God out of a hat to justify or explain. We've inherited ways to do things, just like we've inherited being, just as some folks have inherited God as a reason for x, y or z.

    Science does enlarge the universe though which helps us to change what we can to benefit human beings (relatively speaking).

    God seems to be a sort of an inherited case of ideas (a bit conservative) about embodiment of law/order that governs human or cosmic action.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k


    Just a quick soundbite for you:

    Consider ancient Egypt (and even prehistoric Egypt) around 3100BC before Plato. There were various forms of pantheism and polytheism.

    Now consider modern day philosophy of Religion and Metaphysics... .

    Accordingly, in the spirit of Kantian logic: "All events must have a cause."

    Fast forward to modern science; physics, cosmology and the desire to understand all of existence= ToE.

    To put succinctly there, was there a common theme/emerging? Hint: it has existential implications.
  • alcontali
    1.3k
    Why would we need a god to exist?Athen Goh

    Religion can be as much a tool by the ruling elite as one against it. That last bit is really important, because otherwise, as a single individual, you stand powerless against the guns of the government. Religion, however, allows you to retaliate.

    Imagine that the government seeks to attack you as an individual.

    Are you powerless? No.

    Just make the government officials publicly say or write something derogatory about religion, or even make them just deny the power of an active religion such as Islam. Since you have now manipulated them into insulting religion, you will see the hottest believers in the religion seeking to strike back, and make the severed arms and legs fly around in the air. Governments are scared to death because they know it does not take much for them to die like dogs. It happens all the time.

    That is the true power of religion, and that is what I fundamentally love and admire about it.

    Now you probably understand why I do not give a flying fart about any long rant that seeks to question religion. I am simply not giving up the power to strike back. Seriously, that will only happen in your dreams. Not in the real world, my friend!
  • Pfhorrest
    4.6k
    What makes your pissed off religious mob any better than a government? Both are groups who’ll threaten to kill you if you don’t do what they say.
  • alcontali
    1.3k
    What makes your pissed off religious mob any better than a government?Pfhorrest

    It is just a tool like any other tool.

    Both are groups who’ll threaten to kill you if you don’t do what they say.Pfhorrest

    Not really.

    I have learned to speak with utmost respect about religion. Seriously, I do not shit talk religion, and I have very good reasons for that. It is even an excellent insurance policy.

    Therefore, I am not a target for religious mobs.

    The secular government, however, certainly is. I am a respectful person, while the secular government is not. As you know, respect is ultimately always based on the fear for reprisals.

    Seriously, I have no fear whatsoever for religious mobs.

    I can even walk through them, holding the scripture in my hand, and feel completely safe, protected as I am by the powers that radiate and emanate from the scripture itself.

    I can safely walk through areas that are more dangerous to atheists than the core of a nuclear reactor.

    Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

    Seriously, I am protected by higher powers, while the secular government is not.
  • Pfhorrest
    4.6k
    I can safely walk through areas that are more dangerous to atheists than the core of a nuclear reactor.alcontali

    What about angry mobs of people of a different religion, who hate people of whichever religion you are?
  • 3017amen
    3.1k
    Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.alcontali

    What about angry mobs of people of a different religion, who hate people of whichever religion you are?

    Thanks for the inspirational quote Alcontali!

    With respect to angry mobs viz Religion. The important distinction not to forget about is, the dangers of extremism/fundamentalism. Because otherwise that's what you're talking about there... .

    In other words, not all Religion is about extremism.
  • NOS4A2
    9.2k


    That would be a false sense of security. Any mob, religious or not, can and has torn apart the innocent on a whim.
  • Mikie
    6.6k
    "God" is a meaningless term, essentially. If one defines it as a human-like invisible spirit somewhere "up there" in a different dimension, there's not the slightest reason to believe that, especially when you now have history and exposure to a wide range of world belief systems.

    If "God" means something greater than human beings -- OK, fine. Why we call it "God" and not something less historically charged is another question. Why not call it "Brahman" or the "Apeiron," etc.? And who cares at that point, anyway?

    The fact that people are even arguing about it is interesting. I wonder if in India they're arguing whether Shiva exists. Probably.
  • Gnomon
    3.7k
    Why would we need a god to exist? What is wrong in believing in the true calculated spontaneity of science, that we simply just came into existence?Athen Goh
    For animals there is no need for an absolute BEING to explain our contingent existence. But humans are not content to live in the here & now. We explore possibilities beyond the limits of our physical senses. So, all cultures have produced conventional answers to childlike questions, such as "who made the world?", "where did we come from?"; "where do we go when we die?"

    Philosophers of all ages and cultures have concluded that ultimate questions are not answerable in space-time terminology. So they imagine The Source to lie beyond or behind the sensory world. Yet their necessary BEING (e.g. Brahman, Logos, Allah) is essentially a Black Box, with no physical attributes, but unlimited creative power.

    Nevertheless, religious leaders, with flocks to shepherd, have always been forced to translate such an amorphous abstruse concept into space-time metaphors with human characteristics that non-philosophers can relate to. Unfortunately, the variety & incompatibility of those humanoid personalities can lead to conflict over interpretations of their intentions and their will, even of their mode of being (Trinity).

    That's why I rationally accept the necessity of the singular Philosopher's God, and reject the contingency of the variety of Personal Deities. Something "just simply came into existence", but it wasn't me. And the Big Bang theory indicates that it wasn't the space-time world either. So " believing in the true calculated spontaneity of science, that we simply just came into existence" is just as much a leap of Black Box blind faith as any god belief.

    Philosophical Theism : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_theism

    The God of The Philosophers : https://reasonandmeaning.com/2015/06/05/jb-sci-and-rel/

    Necessary BEING : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_necessity

    BEING : http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page10.html
  • Craiya
    15
    I always did and most likely always will prefer science over religion, because I simply don't believe something I haven't seen and cannot prove.

    Personally, I think the reason why such thing as religion was created was to mainly earn money and to "establish order". If people believed in God (or more gods, of course) they had something in common. And so, the ones who claimed they were "serving the God" used this naive belief of people. It made them somewhat powerful.

    What also doesn't make me believe in religion is its logic. If science cannot prove or explain something, it is only a matter of time until it'll be able to. Because science is evolving all the time, but religion is not. It remains the same.

    No matter how (let's just say ridicilous) religion - especially Christianity - seems to me, I always respect anybody who prefers this style of life. It is everybody's opinion and we should all respect each other's point of view.

    Religion and belief itself are very important things, your behavior and mental health depends on it.

    Note this! Belief and knowledge are two different things.
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