I don't think Thunberg is trying to be an expert at all on the subject if her message is simply to "listen to the scientists". So much as she's asking people to listen to her, it's to take the actual experts on the matter seriously, people who are older, have degrees, and a lifetime of experience studying the issue.
It would be fantastic if we can all agree that climate change is happening, urgent action needs to be done, and we simply disagree as to the specifics of what approach to take. However, as seen in the recent COP25 our world leaders are not even at that stage yet and that's the problem. — Mr Bee
Back then the whole thing was dealt differently. As you said, it indeed was a discussion conducted among smart, scientist-type adults. Now it's not.Global warming has been a hot topic of discussion for the last 40 years, conducted among smart, scientist-type adults. Did I hear about global warming in 1980? No. Back then, the burning issue was the ozone hole over the antarctic and diminished ozone in the upper atmosphere elsewhere. — Bitter Crank
Okay. I was interested to know if there was evidence of lib-nut foul play. — ZzzoneiroCosm
An honest question for information without any bias eh — ChatteringMonkey
One of the problems on the policy half of the question is that it's a bureaucratic and political mess to get something done. — ChatteringMonkey
And then what does it help really, to keep shouting and blaming everybody? — ChatteringMonkey
There's so many lies and contortions of fact on both sides. The more information I have, the less dizzy I feel. — ZzzoneiroCosm
Indeed, it sucks to get a consensus on the issue. That's sort of the reason why I have less faith in government bodies to change things given how democratic systems can simply elect psychopaths like Trump or Bolsonaro at any point and cause chaos. They've had a chance to do things for decades now and we're still figuring it out.
Likely we won't be seeing massive change until an economic incentive comes in to push people to switch to renewables, cause apparently that's all that people care about. Thankfully renewables have become competitive and electric vehicles are catching on so there's hope on that front. I just hope that people start adopting it en masse like they did smartphones. — Mr Bee
Public shaming for one. Protests have been effective more or less historically. And it's not like she's wrong in blaming world leaders, cause they're supposed to be the people who look out for the best interests of the people, and they're failing at it. — Mr Bee
I get all that.
I started this thread on a whim. The OP videos juxtaposed Greta's impassioned speech with images of extravagant pollution. As if to say fuck this little girl and the earth she rode in on: Let's own the libs by grandiosely toxifying the earth. A death-cult psychology. That's what fascinates me. — ZzzoneiroCosm
Yeah and those economic incentives likely will have to come in the form of taxes, at least in part. That could work, one problem with that route though, is that those taxations often hurt the poor the most. — ChatteringMonkey
I'm not a huge fan of public shaming. Psychopaths typically don't feel shame. And more generally, I don't think shaming changes the behaviour of people for the better usually. You give an incentive to people to hide their behaviour yes, and then another layer of bad gets pilled on top of it. — ChatteringMonkey
What precisely do you find irrational in Greta's plea?
— ZzzoneiroCosm
Blaming the world for "stealing her childhood", for one. — Tzeentch
I for one, refuse to play the blame game. — god must be atheist
I agree with Greta 100%, but I don't especially like listening to her talk. — Bitter Crank
What precisely do you find irrational in Greta's plea? — ZzzoneiroCosm
And what law says that children are not rational agents? — tim wood
Let me know when they fawn over a teenager and become activists in her name. — NOS4A2
What evidence is there that Greta is being used? — ZzzoneiroCosm
I think that generally speaking, we have become like people who have soiled themselves and are well satisfied to have done so. Smug about it, even. Of course we say "Fuck you, Greta." What else would someone happy to be in that condition say, to anyone who complains of the smell? — Ciceronianus the White
Well, I live in the Netherlands, so in a sense I am the canary in the mineshaft, since sea level rise should have put half the country underwater. But so far, nothing. — Tzeentch
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was referring to the fact that technological developments will help give companies and countries more of a reason to switch to renewables over relying on traditional fuels since they will be cheaper and less costly overall on a financial level. Like I said before, these technologies are becoming competitive and will take over in the coming years. My only hope is that it will be sooner rather than later given the limited time frame we have to act on the environment.
One reason why I liked the vanilla Green New Deal was that it can be argued both on an economic and environmental level. Even if you have people on the right that don't care/believe in climate change, they can still be persuaded on the economic opportunities of green technology. So much as governments are involved, I think they should in part be investing and subsidizing R&D on renewables and EVs, especially if it moves funds away from fossil fuel subsidies.
Anyways, since we're on the topic of taxation, it really depends on what the taxation is. If it's gonna be regressive like the ones in France, then of course that's a backwards way of going about it since it disproportionately hurts the poor over the rich. A carbon tax that is rebated back to the people like in Canada would be more palatable IMO. In addition, there are also tax credits that incentivize people to switch to EVs and renewables that should be considered as well. — Mr Bee
Shaming of public officials may not sway their hearts on a personal level, but if it hurts their public standing so as to hurt their businesses or reelection chances then they'll be obligated to act whether they want to or not. Bolsonaro clearly doesn't give a damn about the Amazon burning, but the global outcry of the Amazon's destruction led to organizations like the EU to reconsider their trade deals with Brazil which convinced him to finally send in the military to put them out. Of course this isn't gonna stop him completely but it helps limit the damage he is doing. — Mr Bee
think that generally speaking, we have become like people who have soiled themselves and are well satisfied to have done so. Smug about it, even. Of course we say "Fuck you, Greta." What else would someone happy to be in that condition say, to anyone who complains of the smell? — Ciceronianus the White
that canary already died — Benkei
Fuck you Greta has nothing to do with whether her activism is valid or not. — staticphoton
She is getting used by the big fishes.. I agree with Greta 100%, but I don't especially like listening to her talk.
reaction to the sticker is nothing but a line separating those who give a shit and those who don't. — staticphoton
This is very true. But what we forget, is that we have ALL soiled ourselves. There are no humans who form any exception there. Greta included.
She's the typical person whose basic attitude is, "I soiled myself, too, but my shit don't smell". — god must be atheist
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