Regarding the Iceland bit...

The lending institutions in '08 could have been saved by simply paying off the mortgages. It would have been a helluva lot cheaper, and caused a helluva lot less harm to average Americans.

To fight corruption is an issue that both left-wing and right-wing activists would happily agree on. Naturally they hate each other so much, that they don't even notice this. — ssu

That hate of political party is not natural. It's learned... it's taught... it's fed...

There are a surprisingly large number of things that most Americans will agree upon that neither party currently stands for.

Creativesoul, you have just aptly defined the landscape where populist movements and basically populism, be it from the right (or the left, in some other cases), cherishes and where populist fervor can get a stranglehold on politics. — ssu

What counts as populism?

The impeachment process is about Trump's purported abuse of power and obstruction.

Joe Biden has nothing to do with any of that. There is nothing he can say that is relevant to what's under consideration.

It won't happen anyway. There are no grounds for compelling Biden's testimony in the impeachment matters. May as well subpoena Oprah.

Sure, it is. The president has a duty to uphold the law. If either Biden is guilty of corruption then Trump was right, and it is the Democrat’s who are abusing their power to obstruct justice.

If either Biden is guilty of corruption then Trump was right... — NOS4A2

Two wrongs don't make a right.

There is Nothing wrong with investigating corruption.

That's not what Trump is charged with.

There are no grounds for compelling Biden's testimony in the impeachment matters. May as well subpoena Oprah. — creativesoul

A subpoena would compel either Oprah or Joe. They can't ignore it no matter how ludicrous it is. Keep in mind Trump has decided his people can ignore subpoenas based on his judgment. If anyone can similarly ignore subpoenas, they lose their power.

The president has a duty to uphold the law. If either Biden is guilty of corruption then Trump was right, and it is the Democrat’s who are abusing their power to obstruct justice. — NOS4A2

That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard so far.

The impeachment is not attempting to stop Trump from upholding the law...

There are no grounds for compelling Biden's testimony in the impeachment matters. May as well subpoena Oprah.
— creativesoul
A subpoena would compell either Oprah or Joe. — Relativist

Yes. The point is that neither Biden nor Oprah have anything to do with what the impeachment proceedings are looking into.

There is Nothing wrong with investigating corruption. — NOS4A2

Good. Let's look at Trump's financial records.

What counts as populism? — creativesoul

I would go with the more narrow definition of it being the juxtaposition of "the elites" being against, oppressing or forgetting "the people". And the populist is the one fighting for the people against "the elite".

Another similar definition is "a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups."

I agree. If Biden were to appear, it would provide a stage for Republicans to make disparaging assertions.

Good thing that's not the only possible popular stance in these situations.

Talking in terms of "the elites" is fraught with misdirection.

Talking in terms of what's in the best interest of American citizens and what's not is much better.

That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard so far. — creativesoul

Nos constantly recirculates Alt-right conspiracy theories. There's an entire media landscape out there that does the same.

If Biden were to appear, it would provide a stage for Republicans to make disparaging assertions. — Relativist

It would the same tactic: smokescreens, distractions, whataboutism. Anything other than the facts, which are damning and which in any normal situation would have long since resulted in Trump's resignation.

That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard so far.

The impeachment is not attempting to stop Trump from upholding the law...

Sure they are. The inquisitorial Democrats pretend he is seeking dirt on a political opponent to influence the 2020 election, completely sidestepping Trump’s actual queries about Biden’s possible corruption.

You're an idiot.

Wait till McGahn testifies...

The lending institutions in '08 could have been saved by simply paying off the mortgages. It would have been a helluva lot cheaper, and caused a helluva lot less harm to average Americans. — creativesoul

You mean debt relief? Well, I think the trick was to stabilize the global monetary system, but NOT to get that trillion dollars into the real economy.

That hate of political party is not natural. It's learned... it's taught... it's fed... — creativesoul

I fully agree.

The two parties have to give the appearance that they are SO different. Yes, it's your obligation to vote for them as otherwise those evil lunatics from the other party will destroy America!

Incidentally, there's a Wikipedia article about the Trump-Ukraine scandal. Useful digest, summary, timeline and links.

Wait till Biden testifies. Hopefully your double standards will become more apparent to you.

You're either delusional or dishonest. Neither is acceptable.

You're either delusional or dishonest. Neither is acceptable.

Neither of which is true. There go those standards again.

But if you don’t want to discuss the topic, I understand. Cognitive dissonance can be ruinous to mental health.

Talking in terms of "the elites" is fraught with misdirection.

Talking in terms of what's in the best interest of American citizens and what's not is much better. — creativesoul

Exactly.

The problem in populism is the juxtaposition of 'us against them'. To think that the so-called 'elite' is some unified group with a clear agenda and objectives is something that isn't actually true, just like it is absurd to think "the people" is one unified group. To be against the agenda of some political actors is basically ordinary politics. We do obviously disagree, but in a democracy that is not the reason to divide the people into two opposing camps that do not and cannot work together.

The proles are doing really well in this economy, and Trump always speaks highly of the working man and woman, much more so than the Democrats. Will Trump’s GOP become the party of the worker?

Wages for rank-and-file workers are rising at the quickest pace in more than a decade, even faster than for bosses, a sign that the labor market has tightened sufficiently to convey bigger increases to lower-paid employees.

Gains for those workers have accelerated much of this year, a time when the unemployment rate fell to a half-century low. A short supply of workers, increased poaching and minimum-wage increases have helped those nearer to the bottom of the pay scale.

Rank-and-File Workers Get Bigger Raises

The proles are doing really well in this economy, and Trump always speaks highly of the working man and woman, much more so than the Democrats. — NOS4A2

Well, real median household income is higher than in the end of the 20th Century. Whopee. Of course this rise started during the last Obama years, but still has gone up.

Will Trump’s GOP become the party of the worker? — NOS4A2

Workers aren't an unified class, weren't even during the last Century. Even if especially one political side thinks it represents the workers.

And I think the real divide goes more with race than even with education.

Race isn’t a unified group either. But democrats have embraced identity politics in more recent years, to the detriment of the worker in my opinion.

But given that “wages for rank-and-file workers are rising at the quickest pace in more than a decade”, one cannot really treat this as the work of Obama.

But democrats have embraced identity politics in more recent years, to the detriment of the worker in my opinion. — NOS4A2

If you have record low unemployment, then salaries ought to rise. Yet then again it's a sign that the business cycle is reaching it's peak.

But democrats have embraced identity politics in more recent years, to the detriment of the worker in my opinion. — NOS4A2

Playing it too much for the 'woke' crowd indeed can alienate the traditional blue-collar workers.

If you have record low unemployment, then salaries ought to rise. Yet then again it's a sign that the business cycle is reaching it's peak.

Yeah, workers have options for employment now that they are in high demand. They can afford to be picky about what job they want. As such, wages must be raised to remain competitive in the job market. The oft-dreaded “trickle-down” economics seems to be working in that respect.

Both parties have enacted legislation that caused and is still causing demonstrable financial harm to American citizens. Trump's administration is stepping on the gas...

The right to organize is being attacked from all sides...

The discussion needs to be had. There's a 'woke' America regarding systemic racism and there needs to be a woke America regarding systemic corporationism(government corruption). Harming everyday citizens in the guise of the greater good. Trump is guilty of both... racist action and outsourcing what could be American jobs to another country...

He's a con artist.

Yeah, workers have options for employment now that they are in high demand. — NOS4A2

The options for the average non college educated citizen are a joke. No decent health insurance coverage. Employee pays the brunt of that. No pension. No benefits. No legal recourse.

No American manufacturing to speak of compared to the time before all of the trade agreements.

The American public now has way more choices... of shoddy inferior quality products to choose from.