• ernestm
    1k
    I am open to all comments on improving my blog, but due to hundreds of prior diatribes on the loathsome idea that the USA is a Christian nation at all, I have to say in advance, my following discussion does consider newer ideas of atheistic social contracts in its second section, which won't make sense unless you read the first section.
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    The Declaration of Independence, on which grounds the USA is an independent nation, states that the USA rebelled against the British for violating natural rights. Most people believe those natural rights are OBVIOUSLY not based on a belief in God, because Franklin changed Jefferson's original description of natural rights as ‘sacred and undeniable’ to ‘self-evident’ truths. And on the surface intuitive, self-evident truth may appear sufficient.

    But intuitions differ as to what natural rights should be, or on how to resolve their conflicts, or on whether rights should exist at all. For example, France holds that its motto 'freedom, fraternity, and equality’ should be self-evident as natural rights too; and many gun owners, wishing to protect their property, feel their liberty should take precedence over another’s life, whereas others don’t. However, the USA has generally been more successful in resolving such conflicts of intuition to the benefit of the nation. because the USA’s natural rights are reasoned deductions from the natural human condition.

    Franklin also changed ‘God’ to ‘Creator’ in one place of the Declaration of Independence, to incorporate John Paine’s belief that science makes nature function purely automatically since the Creation.
    But in an earlier instance Jefferson’s original words were retained, ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature's God,’ because Jefferson chose the natural rights we now have from John Locke’s expoundment on the State of Nature under God. While some fiercely object to any notion of God at all, it’s not possible to remove it, because:
    • The USA declared its independence from the British because the British violated these natural rights. Natural rights cannot be altered without undermining the legitimacy of the USA to govern itself as an independent nation.
    • The Supreme Court uses the Founders’ intent to resolve Constitutional disputes. When he was President, Jefferson named Locke as one of the three greatest men who ever lived—Locke’s portrait still hangs in his Monticello museum, preserving his estate for posterity (the other two are Francis Bacon and Isaac Newton). So the Supreme Court must take Jefferson’s choice of Locke’s theory into account when interpreting Constitutional law for the current day.
    • Jefferson’s choice is the only reason we have rights at all under a system of positive law (which is law to increase freedom rather than impose restrictions). No other political theory has been able to create a rational system of positive law.
    • Jefferson’s choice enables inclusion of ‘pursuit of happiness’ as a right, which no other political theory has been able to do.
    • Jefferson’s choice of natural rights was based on well-reasoned deductions from the natural human condition ('empirically') by John Locke, widely regarded as the most influential early enlightenment thinker. This enables resolution of many Constitutional disputes by reasoned deduction, so the Supreme Court cannot ignore Locke’s influence on Jefferson’s choice and consider law to be self-evident instead.

    Locke was countering an earlier view of the State of Nature by John Hobbes, who held fear and chaos to be the natural condition, and punishment by a God-fearing, feudalist monarchy as the only solution (“Leviathan,” http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3207). Locke built on Hobbes’ idea of a social contract, whereby individuals trapped in a base state of nature (without authority) imagine an exchange of lost freedom to authority, in order to maintain the social order and escape the natural state of fear. (Many people confuse this with an actual contract, but the social contract can only be imagined, because humans have never existed without some form or authority, tribal or otherwise.) To enable democracy, Locke substituted hope for fear in Hobbes’ earlier version of a social contract, in an extensive argument for the USA’s natural rights, roughly summarized as the following hierarchy:

    • Premise: All people are created equal in the Eyes of God, who benignly seeks to grant us justice in heaven. Therefore governments should treat all people equally on Earth.
    • Primary: The right to life is necessary so that God may judge people in the best way possible from their own acts in a natural life. Besides declaring killing as the worst possible crime, this enables the State to legislate on water, agriculture, housing, and health.
    • Secondary: The right to liberty is not only so that people can find the pleasures they enjoy, but also so that people may choose to act for the greater good, which is necessary for a successful government. Acting for the greater good is rarely rewarded in the current life, so to make these rights a basis for a rational system of justice, we must presume that they are rewarded in the afterlife. This entitles the federal government only to impose restrictive laws that do not restrict liberty.
    • Tertiary: The right to pursue happiness is now possible, due to the above right to liberty, enabling taxation for social benefit beyond the scope of the most minimal restrictions on liberty that a state could impose. These include education, libraries, museums, national parks, public radio and TV, etc.

    The passage defining the empirical derivation of USA' natural rights is Locke's 150,000-word "Essay Concerning Human Understanding” (https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/locke-the-works-vol-1-an-essay-concerning-human-understanding-part-1), Book 2, Chapter 21, On Power. The rights are based both on earlier analysis of equality in the same book, and on his earlier and better known work “Second Treatise of Government” which discusses how property could be a natural right (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7370).
    Of course, natural laws are abstract, so Constitutional Law derives legal rights and restrictions from the natural rights, mostly in the Bill of Rights. That is, the authority to rule, granted by the USA's independence by natural rights, promulgates authority to the Constitutional Law defined by the government. When conflicts arise in Constitutional Law, the Federal Supreme Court looks up to natural law for resolution, especially in the Founders’ intent.

    Human Rights versus Natural Rights

    Since Jefferson, many objections have arisen to Locke's necessary premise of the existence of a benign God. Human Rights attempt to define universal rights that do not require assuming the existence of God. In the 300 years since the enlightenment, human rights has found rational ways to define and prioritize rights to life and liberty, but not to pursuit of happiness. Thus, logically, proponents of human rights wish to privatize schools, libraries, museums, parks, etc. However they have not been successful in convincing the public that their conclusions are better than Locke's, and as things are, the natural rights chosen by Jefferson from the ideas of Locke remain the only rationally complete guide to resolution of Constitutional disputes, which the Supreme Court looks to when considering the Founders’ intent.

    Notwithstanding the Supreme Court making decisions when evaluating the Founder’s Intent--etc, etc--there is also the prior existing self-evident interpretation, based on intuition. So when the USA is faced with dissent at a level which threatens National Security, it has sometimes decided to use human rights, rather than Locke’s natural rights, to define decisions. Instead of rationality, human rights inevitably ends up accepting Rousseau’s definition of a social contract as government by consensus, drawn from the notion that human beings are no more than noble savages, who will rebel if a majority has a sufficient complaint. However, human rights cannot provide a complete rational explanation for the Jeffersonian rights, especially with respect to conflicts in rights to life (lethal self defense, abortion, the death penalty) and in how the government should enable pursuit of happiness (schools, museums, libraries, parks, public radio and TV, etc).

    The human-rights shortfall is unavoidable, because human rights do not allow religion to define what those rights should be--A problem known as Hume’s Guillotine, first described in his “Treatise on Human Nature,” Book 3, §1 (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4705) and later by Moore’s naturalistic fallacy (“Principia Ethica”, 1903, http://www.gutenberg.org/files/53430/53430-h/53430-h.htm). Human rights can define rules to provide a safe life, but without any way of being able to say what people should do otherwise, human rights are reduced to the necessities of life itself, such as water, food, shelter, and control (human rights finds government necessary because our natural state, as a species, is a member of the Ape family, and even Apes have authority structures). The logical result of allowing human rights alone to define law is a minimal state, where the government does as little as possible. Historically, however, minimal-state nations often fail, frequently due to revolution. Democracies thus do not consider it wise to adopt a complete minimal-state government, and all current democracies have one or another religion at its basis.

    Thus in the USA, federalism allows states to reduce natural rights more than required at the federal level via State Supreme Courts, and individual states decide the amount that atheistic notions of human rights replace Lockean natural rights at the federal level. In the last century, federalist notions on reducing national control on all issues have handed over more and more responsibility to the 50 individual states.

    France, incidentally, just accepts Locke’s conclusions. In 1762, Rousseau did write about Locke's views on the "Social Contract"(earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/rousseau1762.pdf, trans. Bennett, 2017) in which he most notably explores civil reaction to illegitimate power; but Rousseau had nothing to say about natural rights. After the French Revolution and Napoleon, France now feels rights to life and happiness are so justified AND so self evident, they don't even need to be stated!
  • 3017amen
    3.1k


    Consider the words 'in God we trust' on American currency. What does that mean to you?

    Example: if one say's that Christian philosophy (i.e.; OT/Wisdom Books and the inspiration of Jesus/NT) helped America, would they be wrong?
  • ernestm
    1k
    That doesnt have anything to do with the USA's social contract, so I dont have anything further to say on it.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k


    I'm not following you on that. Are you saying that the social contract as found in Christian philosophy/Judeo Christian old testament wisdom books is irrelevant?
  • ernestm
    1k
    it was 'old thought' like Plato too which was generally held to be 'replaced' in the enlightenment by more complete reasoning not reliant on doctrinal assertion alone, which was why it was called the enlightenment
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    I tried to read your opening post, and I can't see any point you make in an effort to establish the value and validity of social contract. You speak which president changed the word from god to creator, and you speak of Hobbes and Locke and fear and hope, but to me the whole script does not say anything on its own. A steel worker in Pennsylvania and a corn farmer in Iowa may want to keep their guns and make a decent living but are their lives really influenced or affected by Locke's 150,000-word essay?

    I also should have thought that social contract was not a moral, but an economic and security necessity. It can be a moral necessity, but to decide policies on moral grounds leads to a quagmire of directions to go in political and fiscal structures, and to a lot of angry shouting and calling each other names in parliamentary (Congressional) debate.

    Altogether, it seems to me, that you, the author of the OP, has put a lot of thought into this, but got sidetracked by research and by the influence of the imagined magnitude of philosophy that allegedly direct policy. There I found very little, or no, connection between human rights, natural rights, and social policy, mainly because you completely neglected to write about part of your topic: the current state of social policy that is a reflection of an alleged social contract.
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    I'm not following you on that. Are you saying that the social contract as found in Christian philosophy/Judeo Christian old testament wisdom books is irrelevant?3017amen

    Endarkenment.
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    Example: if one say's that Christian philosophy (i.e.; OT/Wisdom Books and the inspiration of Jesus/NT) helped America, would they be wrong?3017amen

    No, they would not be wrong. OT and NT helped Europeans colonize America greatly, because Christian policy enabled a practice to completely eliminate by blood bath all native Americans because they were just "wild" people, not Christians, whose lives were at par with a dog or a pig, in the value systems of the typical Colonist.

    Is this what you meant, 3017amen? Because this is what and how Christianity helped the ideal that facilitated the settling of the Americas by the Christian Europeans.
  • 3017amen
    3.1k


    Nope, that's not what I meant. I appreciate your sarcasm, so I'll return the favor. Thus to underscore the perception you are giving by your response, unfortunately, that response represents the typical example Einstein talked about regarding disgruntled Atheist's who have an interminable axe to grind.

    With all due respect, if you were listening/reading, what I'm talking about is, if you would read the OT Wisdom Books (Sirach, Wisdom, Ecclesiastes, etc...), you would find various pragmatic social norms that were recommended/established for human kind. Simple examples were how to act in relationships, friendships, dining etiquette, social environments, child rearing basics (spare the rod spoil the child), Aristotelian moderation, Existentialism... , otherwise basic yet practical wisdom, customs, social norms and advice useful for a happier lifestyle.

    In the alternative, what I believe you are referring to are the human/intrinsic flaws of greed, ego, power, domination, insecurity, paranoia, phobia, fear and other related dysfunctional pathologies associated with the human condition.

    Could the early settlers and native Americans have embraced each other better you think? Perhaps they should have smoked a little more of the peace pipe. Treat others as you would like to be treated goes along way-another Christian philosophy. Are people still not practicing that simple advice? What is Faith, Hope and Love to you?


    Questions for you:

    Was John Smith a good or bad leader?
    Were the Chickahominy Indians adversarial or welcoming?
    Were people scared, worried for their safety causing them to resort to cannibalism?

    Using your words back at you, is this what you meant to say, in how Atheism can solve those existential motivations relative to the human condition? How would can you solve this problem in society viz the human condition? Can positive Atheism be a better alternative in helping humans achieve their goals in society?
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    I appreciate your sarcasm,3017amen

    I was not sarcastic. At all.
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    He came dancing across the water
    With his galleons and guns
    Looking for the new world
    In that palace in the sun.

    On the shore lay Montezuma
    With his coca leaves and pearls
    In his halls he often wondered
    With the secrets of the worlds.

    And his subjects
    Gathered 'round him
    Like the leaves around a tree
    In their clothes of many colors
    For the angry gods to see.

    And the women all were beautiful
    And the men stood
    Straight and strong
    They offered life in sacrifice
    So that others could go on.

    Hate was just a legend
    And war was never known
    The people worked together
    And they lifted many stones.

    And they carried them
    To the flatlands
    But they died along the way
    And they built up
    With their bare hands
    What we still can't do today.

    And I know she's living there
    And she loves me to this day
    I still can't remember when
    Or how I lost my way.

    He came dancing across the water
    Cortez, Cortez
    What a killer.

    -- Neil Young
  • KristopherCussans
    1
    Perhaps less worse, though not better.

    Whether or not it is considered 'pragmatic' social contracts and natural rights are very flawed concepts. Appeals to nature, natural rights, Locke and Hobbes are fruits of the enlightenment that have gone rotten. Invocations of nature are easily dismissed and I think recently there has been strong criticism of contract theory, most notably those who have critiqued John Rawls' work. It is a problem of paternalism and consent (keywords if you wanted to do some googling), as well as the justification of the social contract (Leviathan and Rawls' original position).

    I also don't see why it would need to be atheism, although I assume you mean secularism? I agree with your objection to the inclusion of religion within a constitution, that too is problematic.

    All the best
    - Kris Cussans
  • god must be atheist
    5.1k
    Whether or not it is considered 'pragmatic' social contracts and natural rights are very flawed concepts.KristopherCussans

    The way I look at it, social contact, natular lights, are pragmatisms, dressed in a pretty pink dress.

    Basically, we feed the poor and the incapable and give them some spending money to prevent a situation whereby they have to attack us and take our food to eat, our clothes to wear, and our wives to six.

    We call the motivation "social contract", and the minute alms we throw to the starving and to the helpless, "natural rights".

    It's like the movie "Repo Man" wherein a repossession agency calls itself (by its official name), "Helping Hand Samaritan Agency" and like the Christian Bible, where the incredibly sadistic and evil god, precisely documented, is called infinitely good.
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