And this is the warp upon which you build your weave. It appears on the surface of your thinking from time to time. It represents the capital against which you draw upon in your arguments. But "opinion," and what "you buy," & etc., are of no worth in argument. Your account being empty from the start, your thinking being bankrupt, all of your checks are returned marked insufficient funds.I have the opinion — Devans99
Reality is sufficient unto itself. It appears in what seems the main to us to operate with a consistency that we call the operation of laws. And we look for what we call consistency in those operations, consistency being our test. And the history of science has been mainly one of correction and refinement, and sometimes outright rejection of ideas about what we encounter, to reconcile our understandings, expressed as laws, with what we encounter. The goad to that activity being apparent inconsistency and apparent illogic/contradiction.Can you give an example of something illogical / contradictory from reality? — Devans99
A first cause must be able to cause effects without in itself being effected. So it must be self-driven. IE Intelligent.
And what about emotions, why couldn’t it be just emotional instead of intelligent being? Also, do you think it ever questions why does it exist, how and where did it come from, and whether it was itself created by some prior deity? — Zelebg
By the way, if god exist out of time and space, practically then, it exist nowhere and never, so let me ask is it actually made of something or it follows it is really made of nothing? — Zelebg
God has to be causally effective, that suggests made of some substance that is from beyond spacetime. It is possible that the universe is underpinned by a non-material substrate (see quantum entanglement). Maybe God is made of this substance.
Then we can start asking questions about the difference between the spiritual and the material, widdle down the distinction, and come to the realization that we don't fully understand matter and the "brute fact" being looked for is simply the ordered universe instead of an ordered disembodied guy. — Gregory
But something beyond time must exist.
There is some homework for Devans (a small portion of what Aquinas wrote on the subject). I don't like having intellectual conversations with people who don't act like adults — Gregory
There must be at least one 'brute fact' in reality or else the result is nothing (null universe).
1. Can’t get something from nothing
2. So something must have existed ‘always’.
4. It’s not possible to exist permanently in time (would have no start to existence and you cannot exist if you do not start to exist), so the ‘something’ must be the timeless first cause (of time/causality).
imagine the series of motions as a bunch of pictures. Together they flow to create time, but there is no time before the first motion. Gravity causes the whole series to move and time to flow, but there is no before so a God or anything else outside the series is not needed. The world is uncaused, having its own causality within it, as you say of the dude out there — Gregory
These last two points, especially 8, is, I think, designed to avoid the conclusion that elementary particles could be viewed as the candidate for necessary beings. — Miles
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