Destroy the US how exactly? The US is under no threat whatsoever from anyone. The point is they can do as they please because their armed forces are far more deadly than any other.

They’re morons though. They’re human and most humans are moronic. The nonsense with Iran has been going on for years with the toppling of stable governments generally due to the fact that the Saudi’s and the western world have been in bed with each other for around half a century.

It’s oil. The whole Syria business and the matter of Qatar and Iraq are proxy ‘wars’ between NATO and Russia (because people have nothing better to do than play competitive games and try and ‘leave their mark’ in the history books).

They won’t literally ‘go to war’. All war since the Cold War is propaganda - Iran will lose the propaganda war, and eventually the US will turn their focus on South America. The likeliest actually ‘troops on the ground’ invasion will be in South America (likely via Columbian cooperation), into Brasil and/or Venezuela (Brasil is the juicier prize so probably the most likely target - doesn’t take too much digging to see the posturing made by Obama under the previous administration, really the same old behind the scenes bunch, and the governmental scandal involved). If you don’t know what I’ talking about look into Obama’s request to the then Brasilian president - now imprisoned - regarding cooperation/help with the Iranian nuclear programme.

If the US turns away, then Russia will fill the void. They are spreading their influence through Ukraine, Turkey and Syria already. If they get into bed with Iran, then Iraq will be swallowed up by Iran. They may look at Afghanistan again.

They will be breathing down the necks of Europe, Israel and Saudi Arabia.

It’s just a silly paranoid power play. There is no immediate threat. Russia is simply fearful of US paranoia. It has to protect its economic sway in terms of power production. The US has a living generations of people instilled with the Big Red Nasty and so even though the war is long over they still have the infantile reactionary need to crush the skull of the defeated into the dirt.

The issue is economic in terms of supplying oil to Europe. If the US was allowed to do as it pleases in Iraq, Syria and Turkey then Russians wouldn’t have a monopoly on direct pipelines to Europe. That’s just the simple fact of the matter.

At the end of the day they’re both happy to kick shit up in someone else’s backyard rather than in their own. Yeah, we’re likely going to see someone try and drop a bomb at some point in the middle east, and that is basically preferable for the main players involved - but not for Iran, Israel or any other unfortunate puppet used in these silly games.

Aa long as the region is antagonised both Russia and the US remain relatively happy about it. If the middle east was to listen to each other and work together (as Gaddafi pointed out) then things would het better for them VERY quickly ... but that ain’t gonna happen because Saudi’s are loving under a monarchy and basically don’t much care to do anything other than sit back and watch the piles of cash rise.

On the optimistic side of things Saudi Arabia is slowly, and I mean SLOWLY, going through social change that will give its peoples greater freedom.

If it wasn’t Iran it would be some other country of convenience to play some other silly game that the average citizen of most countries don’t really give a shit about.

Iran is not ‘breathing down the necks’ of anyone, nor will they be anytime soon. Nonsense! When did Iran invade anyone? MANY documents from the CIA have been made public since their contribution in the Iraq-Iran war (backed by the west).

Again I refer you (@ArguingWAristotleTiff) to my question (b) from a prior thread. GOP - otherwise loyal tRUMPkins - Senator Lee, R-UT & Senator Paul, R-KY (so far) seemed to have answered. Nakedly shameful wreckless disregard for U.S. national security by your president, Tiff (et al). Is this shitshow what you 'voted' for? :roll: — 180 Proof

I have found comfort in the past from the collective experience and knowledge that is the filter for some politicians including Ron Paul, Joe Liberman, my beloved Maverick and by extension, to a degree Rand Paul when it comes to national security. So I was surprised by Rand's response after being briefed on what the intelligence was before action was taken.

You keep asking if "this" is what I "voted" for which is the same question I am asked from my 20 yr old indian. He takes the question one step further in constantly measuring "When/what will President Trump have to do/or done "enough" to get you to not vote for him again/or regret voting for him to begin with?"

I cannot change the past and when I assess the three year impact of my current choice which includes 20k increase in my personal/small biz taxes over two years, a loss in combined Pell Grants for both myself and my indian and a noticeable increase in the cost of every day goods.

At the same time two of our 15 small businesses that we care for are being hit hard by the tariffs with China, though they have found other sources at a higher price and the pain from the tariffs is easing.

Three of our businesses have had record years for the past two years and with a loosening of a few more regulations we anticipate a new sector of small businesses opening up in the near future.

I don't have an answer to your question nor do I have one for my indian. The question is a complex one for me. In the past two years we have been able to refinance the ranch to utilize the equity to pay my surgeon $36k in cash for my procedure and that is with my insurance picking up their portion of $2k.

We could go off into the weeds of our health care system but for this thread I shall refrain.

Regret? Not yet. Possible change in vote this November? Possible.

We could go back and forth over a lot of those issues, for a few pages and it probably wouldn't leave anyone any the wiser. I was speculating on what would happen should the US turn its back. There would be a vacuum of sorts.

I don't think we should underestimate what is going through Putin's mind. But he does seem to be testing the borders of the territory that is has influence over. It would be remarkable if he weren't looking at the chaos over the pond and looking for opportunities.

When I said "breathing down necks", I was referring to a future scenario in which there is a ring of Russian client states around the whole region. It might not happen, but is it a risk.

In fairness, you take a lot of flak on Trump from just about every angle and manage to stay remarkably good-natured about it, which is admirable. And with 15 small businesses, I imagine you have headaches enough on your plate.

At the moment on Iran, I'm at the thank-fuck-nobody-else-had-to-die stage. Hope it stays like that for the forseeable.

What is more likely? A) All the representatives of government, the military and all that advises them are complete morons who want to destroy the USA.
Or...
B) Perhaps we don't have all the information and probably aren't as smart as we think we are? — Tzeentch

Speaking for myself, B is a given. And it happens often enough over the years, as news comes out years after some event, that what was reported and believed at the time just plain wasn't true.

As to A) I don't think anyone in government is a moron in the sense of being very-low IQ. That aside, after Bush and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (or the Gulf of Tonkin - you can Google it, or Iran-contra, & etc) you can seriously ask?

Folk should realise that israel is paranoid of Iran and looks to the US to pacify them and prevent them acquiring a nuclear bomb. Trump has just lost any leverage he had with Iran, they are now going to acquire the bomb at the first opportunity and the only way Trump can stop them is to go to war.

I wonder why, today, Trump is insisting that the Boeing 737 was shot down over Tehran 'by mistake'? How does he know that? Would it be because if it was actually some hothead with a shoulder-launched missile avenging Suleiman's death, then it suggests unwanted consequences from the assassination?

“USA has had enough of it -- it calls out Iran in a western-type shoot-out.”

This from the survey, which got zero votes and turned out to be what happened.

Why did you get it so wrong?

Stick to your philosophy kiddies.

An alternative:

A: Check out this guy sticking pins in us.
B: Why is he doing that and how can we get him to stop without getting hurt ourselves?
A: Good question... — Baden

You have your answer.

The veneration of dumb luck? Apt.

I reckon I'll just walk across this busy road blindfolded and when I don't get hit by a car that'll prove what a good idea it was.

So whatever he does, what ever works out, is just dumb luck? This also applies to everyone he consulted with and even includes the response from Iran, that they got away with dumb luck and didn’t chose their targets carefully and announce their intentions before hand, all just dumb luck.

No, he planned it all from the start. He knew Iran would fire dozens of missiles at an American base in retaliation for his attack and these missiles would happen to cause no casualties, so he would be able to avoid starting a massive horrific war. He's clearly a genius.

Well let’s just say he knows more about what he’s doing than you do.

I also like his cunning plan of fooling Kim Jong-Un into thinking America didn't want North Korea to have nuclear weapons when all along he planned on them becoming an unassailable nuclear power.

Right on. This guy's moves make Baldrick look like a n00b.

How long is this going to go on @Baden?

The development of full deterrent-level nuclear weapons in North Korea and Iran? Until they get them apparently. :grin:

Whatever, I'm just happy no-one is dead in a horrible war today. Let's all drink champagne and sing Kumbaya until Kim nukes LA.

You seem to have the same attitude to this issue as to climate change. Nothing to important, it will all sort itself out soon enough, folk are sensible enough and will come to some accommodation eventually.

I will ask you what I asked NOS4A2 and didn't get much of an answer, how will Trump prevent Iran acquiring a nuclear bomb?

I wonder why, today, Trump is insisting that the Boeing 737 was shot down over Tehran 'by mistake'? How does he know that? Would it be because if it was actually some hothead with a shoulder-launched missile avenging Suleiman's death, then it suggests unwanted consequences from the assassination?

Good point, I saw that press conference. Trump was at pains to say that it was not a US operation that brought down the plane, not our mistake, that it was probably an accident by the other side. It's a rough neighbourhood. He did look a bit guilty to me, I think he knew by that point that it was a small scale missile strike probably a small group of hotheads like you say, they were positioned in the flight path of aircraft taking off from Tehran airport. It doesn't look like it was a mistake that they set up their missiles there. Also some media are suggesting that it was anti aircraft missiles attacking a suspected US airforce plane. Again, that was unlikely to happen in the flightpath of the airport.

It's looking like there are two people with the blood of those airline passengers on their hands, Trump and the those hotheads with that missile. Perhaps they were given the nod by the leaders, who then put out the press reports that it was an engine fire, afterwards. Outwitting The US, killing over 70 western citizens in reprisal for the assassination of Sulimani, in such a way that the US was found to be impotent, simply because it wasn't clear who actually killed them. This sets the stage for many more such accidents committed by rogue elements etc.

Just dropping in to trigger the checkbox liberals. Sorry you didn't get your war. I'm old enough to remember when Dems didn't pray for war just to make the president look bad. And the House wants to restrict the president's war powers? Where the hell were they in 2002? All of a sudden the House gives a shit about the endless wars? Pelosi signed off on the torture. Never forget that. It helps to keep you focussed on reality and not the partisan bullshit you get fed by the media. Hillary said she'd obliterate Iran. She was the warmonger in chief from Waco to Benghazi by way of Serbia. Don't forget that either. Hillary lost because she was the war candidate and Trump was for peace. The Dems won't admit that.

:clap:

I will ask you what I asked NOS4A2 and didn't get much of an answer, how will Trump prevent Iran acquiring a nuclear bomb? — Punshhh

He probably didn't answer because it's a stupid question. How could we possibly know?

I'm not partisan, I'm over the pond. My interest is how the Middle East is going to kick off. My only concern is that there isn't a nuclear conflagration in the region. Its looking more likely now. Especially if this is the beginning of the US moving out of the region.

Please explain.

He probably didn't answer because it's a stupid question. How could we possibly know?

NOS4A2's answer to the question was that Trump is now going to strike a tougher deal with the Iranians.

Fat chance of that, sounds like he's got as little idea about what to do next, as Trump.

I have already answered this in reply to your questions and NOS4A2 yesterday.

To summarise, any curb on Iran acquiring a nuclear bomb has now been removed and an incentive (numerous incentives) put in its place to acquire it more quickly. Also by taking such a hard line Trump is in danger of pushing Iran into the hands of the Russians. An outcome which probably won't end well.

Phew! You’ve convinced me.