I say logically nothing can not exist by itself like black can not exist without white. I’m saying nothing and everything is one thing with two sides. — Zelebg
I hope my point with the antimonkey was clear at least to someone.
In theory, spacetime CONSISTS of quantum fields. Collectively, these comprise a quantum system. In this context, a quantum fluctuation is not a temporal event. The initial quantum state is zero-point energy; a quantum state is a superposition of all possible eigenstates, each with an energy value of (zero + a value associated with the uncertainty principle).We have established separately that there is a start of time. The start of time requires a cause. An uncaused cause. Quantum fields I feel are part of spacetime and so I doubt they can preexist spacetime (there is no time/space for them to fluctuate in). — Devans99
"Spacetime" may not be the right label to apply to the initial state I described, but it is clearly doesn't require anything external to inflate and become what we call a universe (spacetime). The "cause" is its high energy, and the initial high energy is a consequence of the quantum uncertainty of a zero point energy.A start of time needs a cause from from beyond spacetime. — Devans99
Or there could be black holes birth universes elsewhere. There are a lot of options on the table in current cosmology. — Coben
tell it to the cosmologists. Us lay people sitting around speculating deductively AND ruling things out is, I think, hubris.Not even light can escape a black hole, so they should not be able to give birth to universes. — Devans99
The potential for time would have to have been present in the initial state.I do not believe quantum fluctuations can give birth to a whole dimension (time). — Devans99
That does not follow, but if it's true - those other instances of inflation would not be detectable to us because they would be causally disconnected.If what you describe happened naturally, then there would be many instances of it (inflation).
There is but one instance of inflation so it is not a naturally occurring event.
That does not follow, but if it's true - those other instances of inflation would not be detectable to us because they would be causally disconnected. — Relativist
You'd be better off just striving to show that your belief is rational - I acknowledge that it MIGHT be, but it is NOT rational if if depends on proving the unprovable, as you're trying to do. — Relativist
tell it to the cosmologists. Us lay people sitting around speculating deductively AND ruling things out is, I think, hubris. — Coben
That's another big, convenient assumption. Why assume they should be causally connected (which just means they are detectable)? The fact that others have not been detected could mean there's just the one, or it could mean they are merely causally disconnected. You eliminate possibility #2 by assumption, and that's irrational - there's no basis for this, and so it simply sounds convenient.That does not follow, but if it's true - those other instances of inflation would not be detectable to us because they would be causally disconnected.
— Relativist
I do not believe they would be causally disconnected; they would be overlapping in time and space and there would be evidence of multiple instances of inflation. — Devans99
0 = x - x It really means superposition of everything is equal to nothing, — Zelebg
That's another big, convenient assumption. Why assume they should be causally connected (which just means they are detectable)? The fact that others have not been detected could mean there's just the one, or it could mean they are merely causally disconnected. You eliminate possibility #2 by assumption, and that's irrational - there's no basis for this, and so it simply sounds convenient. — Relativist
Sure, as long as people know they are speculating. I said nothing about you shouldn't have had an opinion or expressed it here.Everyone has a right to an opinion just as much as cosmologists do. Many cosmologists think time has no start so clearly there is a considerable number of them that do not know their arses from their elbows on even basic matters. And speculating deductively is surely what this site is about? — Devans99
The universe can only have one of the following as its average long term behaviour:
1. Expanding. This is what science says.
2. Contracting. Impossible. One big black hole
3. Steady state. Impossible. Leads to 2
4. Cycling. Impossible. Loses energy on each cycle, leading to 3 then 2
Any expanding universe must have a start in space and time (see BGV theory). — Devans99
↪Coben
Lawrence Krauss wrote a book 'demonstrating' how something can come from nothing. — Zelebg
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