There is a Chinese imperialism for you. I started in Tibet in 1950 with the occupation and destruction of Tibetan culture and population the province with Han Chinese who now outnumber the indigenous population. However, from the Chinese point of view Uigurs are a greater threat to Chinese hegemony than Tibet because they are Muslims, a worldwide religion with brethren in neighbouring countries and nd therefore possibly viewed a fifth column. Please note that Thailand, the Philippines, Srilanka and Myanmar mirror the Chinese attitude. Whilst not justifying any of these, Islamic fundamentalism is a factor.

There is a Chinese imperialism for you. I started in Tibet in 1950 with the occupation and destruction of Tibetan culture and population the province with Han Chinese who now outnumber the indigenous population. However, from the Chinese point of view Uigurs are a greater threat to Chinese hegemony than Tibet because they are Muslims, a worldwide religion with brethren in neighbouring countries and nd therefore possibly viewed a fifth column. Please note that Thailand, the Philippines, Srilanka and Myanmar mirror the Chinese attitude. Whilst not justifying any of these, Islamic fundamentalism is a factor. — Jacob-B

So you're saying this isn't a product of the times, it's a product of a long-standing attitude that we would expect to see shaping events as we roll forward.

Should we expect something like a Muslim Holocaust in SE Asia?

That is is not going to happen/ Unlike the Jews of Europe, the Muslim minorities have powerful backers in the Muslim majority countries where they could flee if it comes to the worst. Also, we have now media
UN etc.. although that did not prevent the genocide in Rwanda. I agree that had the Uigurs not been living in the strategic area of Xinjiang, the persecution would less severe.

My understanding is that Eastern (Oriental, far East, East Asian) societies are extremely into unification of styles (Mao-era clothing dressing -- the uniform drab blue-ish gray outfit), of social customs, of sex, of morality, of work ethic, of social stratification and of culturally binding myriads of other societally codified behaviour patterns.

Teaching the Chinese the advantages (what advantages?) of diversity is like teaching fish how to ride a bicycle.

That is is not going to happen/ Unlike the Jews of Europe, the Muslim minorities have powerful backers in the Muslim majority countries where they could flee if it comes to the worst. — Jacob-B

You may be right, but then again, look at the Palestinian refugees. Which Muslim country embraced the Muslim Palestinian refugees to enter their countries?

You may be right, but then again, look at the Palestinian refugees. Which Muslim country embraced the Muslim Palestinian refugees to enter their countries? — god must be atheist

Exactly. People like to help, but not at too much cost.

The I/

The Palestinian refugee problem was created 72 years ago. When you consider the wealth of the oil kingdoms and their need for manpower you realise that the problem that it could have been settled long time ago (and to a large extent it did) Unfortunately, keeping number of the descendants of those refugees at the borders of Israel who claim 'the right to return' became a political aimed at the destruction of the state of Israel. Incidentally, there was also a Jewish refugee problem created by Jew fleeing Arab countries to Israel.

Incidentally, there was also a Jewish refugee problem created by Jew fleeing Arab countries to Israel. — Jacob-B

Israel refused entry to the Jews fleeing persecution in Arab countries? Come ON!

I can see some problems where Israeli intelligence had to screen the incoming masses for infiltrators such as spies and terrorists. But other than that, I can't see any refusal of immigrants of Jews into Israel.

[reWhaply="god must be atheist;372313"]

Not what I meant. of course, Jews fleeing from Arab countries 1948-1950 were received in Israel by open arms. Their descendants form by now the majority of Israel's Jewish population.

The last I heard from a Chinese spokesperson was that the Uygur muslims were free to come and go from the facilities and indeed, they had already left.

But more seriously, I agree that this seems to mirror the re-education camps of the cultural revolution. I am vehemently against such things, but I can't see any other solution for the Chinese administration. If extremist Islam finds its way into these communities, they will probably have a bigger problem which they can't put right without violence.

am vehemently against such things, but I can't see any other solution for the Chinese administration. If extremist Islam finds its way into these communities, they will probably have a bigger problem which they can't put right without violence. — Punshhh

So you approve of it from a strategic angle if not morally?

So you approve of it from a strategic angle if not morally?

I approve of it more than I approve of the action by Assad to deal with Islamic fundamentalism. I have always been uneasy about the methods adopted by China, particularly the way they have treated Tibet, but it does work quite well in preventing violence and civil wars and the like.

The Palestinian refugee problem was created 72 years ago. When you consider the wealth of the oil kingdoms and their need for manpower you realise that the problem that it could have been settled long time ago (and to a large extent it did) Unfortunately, keeping number of the descendants of those refugees at the borders of Israel who claim 'the right to return' became a political aimed at the destruction of the state of Israel. Incidentally, there was also a Jewish refugee problem created by Jew fleeing Arab countries to Israel. — Jacob-B

There wouldn't have been any Jewish flight from Muslim counties but for the various Zionist atrocities, surely? I see no reason that colonists should steal other people's countries and get away with it, never mind how long their occupation lasts.

approve of it more than I approve of the action by Assad to deal with Islamic fundamentalism. — Punshhh

Killed by nerve gas or held in a Chinese re-education camp.

Hmm. That's a toughy.

Since they're willing to execute Falun Gongs for their organs, I dont expect the camps are much above hell on earth.

But should we look at all this amorally for the sake of the peaceful outcome it secures?

Look at the treatment given by Muslim countries to their minorities: the Copts, Yazidis., Armenians...
Over the century the Christian population of the Middle declined from 20% to 2%, Doesn't tell you
why the Jew fled the Muslim countries fled to what is their ancestral land?

I remember back in the day, I was so angry about what China was doing in Tibet that I decided to protest at the Chinese embassy, there were daily protests at that time. But after a couple of minutes I concluded that it was pointless to protest because China was always going to ignore any protests, also they are so big and powerful, which was only going to increase. So I experienced a forlorn sense of resignation about it and filed it under hopeless causes.

This feeling has persisted, so I have a hopeless sense of resignation when I hear of these camps and other policies. I am encouraged occasionally when I see evidence of the benevolence of the Chinese state and that they are trying to do what's best for their people, in one sense of the word. Their foreign policy is a bit of a concern, but I don't feel personally threatened as yet. I do have a mind to avoid ending up in one of those camps myself though.

Protesting is pointless. You can still acknowledge the magnitude of their crimes against humanity.

Right?

Chinese Muslims aren't being persecuted. Uyghurs are. There are historical reasons for this.

It's cultural annihilation. It's fairly recent.

You can still acknowledge the magnitude of their crimes against humanity.

Right?

Yes, and I do, but in this case I don't know if the current policy is worse than the alternative, as I have pointed out. On the assumption (I know it is a big one) that this Muslim community is vulnerable to radicalisation (which I presume, the Chinese authorities conclude), then this might be the least disruptive solution.

I did watch a documentary about the camps and it didn't appear that their culture was being extinguished, but rather that education was aimed at integrating them into a Chinese ideology. I accept that the devil might be in the detail and that for the people being forced into this it might be a form of imprisonment with brainwashing.

I need to read into the culture of Uyghur muslims before I can pronounce any more on their susceptibility to radicalisation. Also I don't see why they would require to include any Christians.

I did watch a documentary about the camps and it didn't appear that their culture was being extinguished, but rather that education was aimed at integrating them into a Chinese ideology. — Punshhh

Which is of course impossible with a muslim population, as its doctrine puts Allah above the party and Shariah above Chinese law. That is not compatible with the CCPs plan for total control of society. For the same reason, the Falun Gong and Christians are also persecuted. Though shalt not have another ruler but the CCP!

The persecution will continue as long as the People exibit certain ethical behaviors associated with people who have religion. The problem with universal basic income is it gives a justification for the government to decide what is ethical. This is why we need modernized significantly reduced zoning laws, Sub-Blue Laws and electric trike lanes if we want to embrace true fiscal conservatism.

The Chinese policies will not benefit the average "world citizen".

I did watch a documentary about the camps and it didn't appear that their culture was being extinguished, but rather that education was aimed at integrating them into a Chinese ideology. — Punshhh

That's the official line. Was that a Chinese documentary that you watched?

That's the official line. Was that a Chinese documentary that you watched?

This is the documentary, I don't know if you can watch it without a TV licence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000btl7/panorama-how-to-brainwash-a-million-people

It was a long time ago that I watched it, so I can't remember much detail. Panorama is usually a quite reliable investigative program. I can imagine the re-education is quite brutal.

There wouldn't have been any Jewish flight from Muslim counties but for the various Zionist atrocities, surely? I see no reason that colonists should steal other people's countries and get away with it, never mind how long their occupation lasts. — iolo

Err, yes there would. Persecution of Jews under islamic rule existed before Israel and will continue to exist in case Israel is destroyed. Read the Koran. Read what it says about the Jews. And read up on the content of Shariah and the treatment of Dhimmis.

Israel is of course a flashpoint in the islamic world... the creation of the Jewish state was never accepted. But it is not root cause of Jew hatred in the islamic world.

I don't think the Chinese care much about human rights.

I'm not an expert on China, I've heard they are less "Communist" today than during the days of Mao.

I'm not an expert on China, I've heard they are less "Communist" today than during the days of Mao. — IvoryBlackBishop

They are capitalist pigs now, camerade. The children of Chinese capitalist billionaires are buying condos and houses in Toronto, Vancouver and countless other cities.

There is rampant favouritism, protectionism. In some areas officials have complete power over a region, and they exhaust it to their maximum personal gain. For instance, you want to build a railway through Jiung-Jang province, you have to pay the local authorities (personally, not officially) to approve the plan.

If you want to pass a driver's test, you'd better be prepared to bribe the instructor otherwise you'll never get a licence.

Admission to higher education is so frought with too many applicants, that of the top-scoring applicants, only those get into university who pay the admission office's secretary in a closed envelope.

The communist spirit -- a fair treatment of the worker, the worker's unions strong, and rule by the workers' party -- is nothing but a remnant of its old heroic days. That is, the present day capitalist and feudal rulers in the country got their positions inherited from their or their parents' communist movement achievements. During communist rule, the only way to advance your life was to be a strong party-member; those people now rule the country by first doing a switcheroo from communist ideals and policy to capitalist, and then having done that, having amassed a stupendous wealth, due to their communist-era earned influence.

It's a little bit like the USA in America. In America, the party line is the Bible, we are good Christians, but yet we forget to practice some of the most basic, yet for our capitalist system's horribly inconvenient biblical tenets and laws. In China, their rampant capitalism still runs under a communist umbrella, with the more inconvenient Communist laws being ignored or quietly and unofficially replaced by capitalist rules.