Although my thesis is intended to reunite metaphysical Qualia with physical Quanta in 21st century Science, the quantum level implications are outside my limited range of knowledge. So, I don't really know what I'm talking about. FWIW though, here's some off-the-top-of-the-head speculations :What are these mysterious phenomena both internal and external to mind, which create the appearance of the world while being simultaneously informed by environments, both inside and outside of particularized matter as we know it intuitively? — Enrique
The fundamental phenomenon, that produces both Qualia and Quanta, is what I call "Information". In its dynamic form I call it EnFormAction : the creative power to enform, or to transform.Some phenomenon extremely basic to not just current biological functionality but the structure of mind as such must exist, embodied in all these hugely variant life-forms as a foundational dynamic of cognition, — Enrique
Yes. As waves begin to cohere, they begin to differentiate into particles, but remain somewhat entangled in the fluid field. Those first "particles" are called Photons. But as the speed of propagation of Light-waves slows down, due perhaps to interactions with other fields, it "condenses" into particles (drops) of Matter. Each such change should produce an equal & opposite reaction of some kind, which we know as Thermodynamics.where the translation of light into kinetic energy at any point in the electron field generates a holistic ripple effect that never fails to evince the statistical signs of reaction center activation — Enrique
I assume that a "coherence field" is essentially an entangled system of particles. But "hybridized" with what?a categorically different phenomenon of hybridized “coherence field”. — Enrique
My guess is that the property of Coherence is what converts a quantum singleton into a system of many parts (wholes). And perhaps the mind is designed to detect signs of coherence in the environment as significant objects (holons) that may have the potential to affect the well-being of the perceiving organism. Incoherent things are random noise, which can be ignored.How do qualia give rise to the qualitative “experience” of a perceiver? — Enrique
"Structure" is, by definition, a constraint that makes a group of individuals into an interactive system. That constraint can be either a physical energetic force, or a metaphysical meaning relationship. The process of Enformation creates internal structure, giving Form to the formless.It seems the structure of macroscopic bodies must impose some level of constraint on the ability of these coherence fields alone to adequately manage an organism’s behavior. — Enrique
What you are calling “Qualia” above, is what I call “EnFormAction” : the power to create meaningful forms (ideas, things). It's more like a "facet of energy" than matter. It is also more fundamental than Mind, because Consciousness emerges at a late stage in evolution. EFA begins as Energy, then transforms into Matter, and then Mind emerges as the function of highly organized Matter.Qualia themselves, as a basic facet of matter, may be more fundamental than the modular experiencing we call “mind”. — Enrique
Yes. Qualia (information) is primordial.qualia may be as ancient as the universe itself. — Enrique
That's why I have concluded that there must have been a Primordial Engineer or Prime Programmer. In my thesis the Mathematician itself consists, not of matter, but of infinite Information (potential ratios, relationships). Which is why Reason or Logos or Structure is the essence of everything we know. Since I don't know anything about that hypothetical entity, I simply call it G*D, and define it by its observed effects in the world.but even if conscious experience does someday turn out to operate according to fixed mathematical laws that resemble human engineering, its mechanisms must far surpass any theoretical idea we have even remotely entertained. — Enrique
How does a Coherence Field relate to an Energy or Force Field? Coherence is the essential quality of a holistic system. Perhaps it's similar to what I call an "Enformation Field", which causes novel & unique things (wholes) to appear where there was only statistical potential before. The EF is not a material field, but merely a mathematical operator, like addition. — Gnomon
That's why I have concluded that there must have been a Primordial Engineer or Prime Programmer. In my thesis the Mathematician itself consists, not of matter, but of infinite Information (potential ratios, relationships). Which is why Reason or Logos or Structure is the essence of everything we know. Since I don't know anything about that hypothetical entity, I simply call it G*D, and define it by its observed effects in the world. — Gnomon
Yes. Qualia (information) is primordial. — Gnomon
I'm on the Kantian fence about whether reality itself operates according to mathematical laws. Math may be fundamental, but it could also be the product of a distinctly organic way of perceiving, perhaps only relevant as an evolutionary adaptation in relation to earth environments, with the foundation being chaotic fluctuation that our minds resolve into form as an approximating prediction mechanism — Enrique
I'm on the Kantian fence about whether reality itself operates according to mathematical laws. Math may be fundamental, but it could also be the product of a distinctly organic way of perceiving, perhaps only relevant as an evolutionary adaptation in relation to earth environments, — Enrique
You find it strange that I consider the comprehensibility of the world (to the extent that we are authorized to speak of such a comprehensibility) as a miracle or as an eternal mystery. Well, a priori, one should expect a chaotic world, which cannot be grasped by the mind in any way .. the kind of order created by Newton's theory of gravitation, for example, is wholly different. Even if a man proposes the axioms of the theory, the success of such a project presupposes a high degree of ordering of the objective world, and this could not be expected a priori. That is the 'miracle' which is constantly reinforced as our knowledge expands.
My view is that the nature of number and scientific laws can't be explained, as they're the basis of explanation; they are what we look to for explanations — Wayfarer
Even if a man proposes the axioms of the theory, the success of such a project presupposes a high degree of ordering of the objective world, and this could not be expected a priori. That is the 'miracle' which is constantly reinforced as our knowledge expands. — Wayfarer
It's a long story. My Enformationism thesis takes mundane Information (Quantitative/Shannon & Qualitative/Bayesian to be the essence of both Matter & Mind (also Quanta & Qualia, Concrete & Abstract). Ancient people had no concept of modern Information, so they referred to the same things as Body & Soul. If you take it that way, it is indeed "spiritual stuff", and could be easily dismissed by Materialists as a "quack topic". If you don't take Qualia seriously, the thesis won't make any sense to you. If you don't like the notion of "Creation via Evolution", don't bother looking into the thesis. :nerd:please explain in more concrete terms what you guys mean by this. — Sir Philo Sophia
My thesis includes a primordial program that is similar to modern Genetic or Evolutionary programming.In my model (way of thinking), the only thing that is 'primordial' is the genetic-like programming — Sir Philo Sophia
If you don't take Qualia seriously, — Gnomon
If you don't like the notion of "Creation via Evolution", — Gnomon
I do take what I understand to be 'qualia' (the vivid experience aspect of awareness) seriously; however, to me that has nothing necessarily to do with spiritual or soul stuff, and is instead purely a mental property of the brain which dies with it. — Sir Philo Sophia
Qualia is the metaphysical manifestation of Information. Matter is a physical form of the same fundamental stuff. If you want to know how I arrived at that conclusion, you'll have to read the Thesis. But if you are a committed Materialist, you won't like it.You make it sound like qualia referred to by the consciousness research community has to be spiritual/soul stuff. — Sir Philo Sophia
Intelligent Evolution : http://gnomon.enformationism.info/Essays/Intelligent%20Evolution%20Essay_Prego_120106.pdfwhat is the basic concept? I do believe that evolution of any system creates new innovative configurations as if they were intelligently designed as such. — Sir Philo Sophia
Where did you get that? I'm not qualified to offer an expert opinion on the possible future of AI. But some Cognitive & Computer Scientists are skeptical of machine consciousness. Are they of necessity supernatural/theological? Personally, I'm agnostic on that possible future. Are you a firm believer in AI as the replacement for humans, as Qualia perceiving moral agents?so, according to your beliefs/thesis, it will be impossible for AI implemented on computational machines to attain human level qualia consciousness of themselves? If you say 'yes' then, IMHO, your philosophy on the subject is not so much metaphysics but supernatural/Theological. — Sir Philo Sophia
what are you meaning there? Are you making up your own terminology? 'Bayesian Information' should be related to using Bayes conditional probabilities in forming the information. Yet, that has nothing to do with "Spirit/Soul" stuff.Bayesian Information (including Consciousness & Qualia) is what used to be referred to as "Spirit/Soul" — Gnomon
why could it not be a randomly formed set of initial conditions for the system(s) to evolve from there? no need for super-natural stuff.FWIW, my thesis does conclude that there must be a First Cause (or Enformer), which is "super-natural", in the sense that it must exist logically prior to the emergence of space-time in the Big Bang. — Gnomon
that is pretty vague. So, zero point energy of free space has experiential/qualia consciousness? you define free space a having qualia consciousness?In non-living environments, these wavicles are perpetually disentangling and decohering also, so matter is composed of fleeting nanoscale qualia properties. — Enrique
are you saying that is the necessary and sufficient condition for a mind to emerge? Could a qualia mind be made w/o that? why not? So, according to your hypothesis a worm could have experiential/qualia consciousness so long as it is in touch with its 'wavicles'?When structures evolve to sustain and synchronize this additive facet of wavicle interactions, a mind can emerge. — Enrique
I'm using a conventional mathematical probability concept for my own special purposes. Shannon information is abstract & mathematical. Bayesian Information takes into account human beliefs, which are subjective & metaphysical. It definitely has something to do with the ancient notion of "Spirit/Soul", as described in Aristotle's Metaphysics. His hylomorphic concept says that body & soul are a union of physical Matter (raw clay) enformed by metaphysical Form (design; structure). Form is the essence (soul) of every thing. Aristotle's rational discussion of human understanding of reality, later came to be applied to irrational fears of ghosts and demons.what are you meaning there? Are you making up your own terminology? 'Bayesian Information' should be related to using Bayes conditional probabilities in forming the information. Yet, that has nothing to do with "Spirit/Soul" stuff. — Sir Philo Sophia
Because, by definition, Randomness alone cannot evolve any novelty. That's why evolution requires both Random Mutations -- most of which are destructive to order -- and Natural Selection -- which is the design criteria (Platonic Form) for fitness. Would you expect anything meaningful to emerge from the random noise on your TV screen? When you see a meaningful image, you know that an intentional signal has been superimposed on the formless randomness.why could it not be a randomly formed set of initial conditions for the system(s) to evolve from there? no need for super-natural stuff. — Sir Philo Sophia
Because, by definition, Randomness alone cannot evolve any novelty. — Gnomon
.Would you expect anything meaningful to emerge from the random noise on your TV screen? — Gnomon
I'm using a conventional mathematical probability concept for my own special purposes. Shannon information is abstract & mathematical. Bayesian Information takes into account human beliefs, which are subjective & metaphysical. It definitely has something to do with the ancient notion of "Spirit/Soul" — Gnomon
Do you think algorithms (programs) exist eternally apart from a Programmer? Or were they, like computer algorithms, a creation of an ententional mind? Who created the algorithms of Nature? Who was the rule-maker? Who gave the instructions to impose order upon chaos. Did organizing constraints on randomness just miraculously appear out of nowhere? Who was the miracle worker? Like any patterns within randomness, algorithms are a sign of an organizing intervention : in most cases, a Mind.My statement was that with such random initial conditions you do not have to have any kind of “First Cause (or Enformer)” because all the algorithms are perfectly fine starting off with a random set and quickly evolving/converging to a solution from there. — Sir Philo Sophia
I'm not a mathematician --- are you? But I get my information from scientists who are mathematicians. And not all of them are Materialists. In fact, mathematicians are more likely than biologists to believe in some kind of God, because of the "the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics” in the formulation of the laws of nature. ___Eugene Wigner.you do not seem to understand what those math formulations mean. — Sir Philo Sophia
That's your opinion. I beg to differ.which definitely has nothing "to do with the ancient notion of "Spirit/Soul". — Sir Philo Sophia
Nevermind. :smile:Please factually explain otherwise. — Sir Philo Sophia
Do you think algorithms (programs) exist eternally apart from a Programmer? — Gnomon
According to big bang and string theories they were randomly created.Who created the algorithms of Nature? — Gnomon
I'm not a mathematician --- are you? — Gnomon
so, your world view here is to sell God as the answer to all things you cannot otherwise explain with the science the non-God believers created for you? That is a dead-end for me as it does not give actionable answers/solutions to resolve factual problems, just allot of feel good spiritual stuff that gives opium to the masses.In fact, mathematicians are more likely than biologists to believe in some kind of God — Gnomon
If coherence fields are found to be supported by the molecular assemblages of cellular biochemistry in the nervous system, especially likely to be discovered in the brain, their extremely complex additive properties may be what we know as ‘qualia’. In this scenario, qualia are not merely an immateriality supervenient on atoms, but instead a kind of exceedingly complex “color” or electromagnetically quantum resonance, material states intrinsic to tangible structure of the physical world. — Enrique
Information/entropy might very well provide a viable model of quantum fundamentals to an extent, but I think this is still reifying our intuitions of bulk, relatively macroscale matter and applying it at the quantum scale, similar to the particularity of atomic theory. — Enrique
When you get into quantum phenomena ... its complete transcendence of the spatiotemporal paradigm. — Enrique
We don't merely have to stop at a theory of the macroscopic/microscopic spatiotemporal divide, but can postulate a completely new, essentially nonlocal facet of substance yet to be detected directly by instruments — Enrique
If qualia are integral to not merely matter as spatiotemporally conceived but this nonlocal substrate as well, we can legitimately expect to explain vastly more phenomena, — Enrique
The principles of nonlocality may completely defy or reconstitute our fundamental image of entropy among much else, such that the structure of all prior models is like a delusion — Enrique
...but the most true account will probably blow all current materialistic conventions to smithereens, and this is tantalizingly within reach. — Enrique
Initially, electrical properties in aggregates of tissue such as the brain needed to be robust enough that a stable supervenience of electromagnetic field (EMF) was created by systematic electron fluxing. — Enrique
Quantum effects in molecules of the body are sensitive to trace EMF energy sources, creating a structural complex of relatively thermodynamic mass containing pockets of relatively quantum biochemistry integrated by sustained radiation. — Enrique
Quantum features of biochemistry have likely been refined evolutionarily so that mechanisms by which relative nonlocality affects organisms, mechanisms of EMF/matter interfacing, mechanisms targeting particular environmental stimuli via functionally tailored pigments along with further classes of molecules and cellular tissues, and mechanisms for translation of stimulus into representational memory all became increasingly coordinated until an arrangement involving what we call ‘intentionality’ emerged, a mind with executive functions of deliberative interpretation and behavioral strategizing, beyond mere reflex-centric memory conjoined to stimulus/response. — Enrique
the nanoscale of tepid H2O — apokrisis
I coined the terms Enformationism and EnFormAction to serve as a modern indication that Information (mind stuff, psyche) is universal (pan-) throughout the natural world. Other theorists have coined their own novel technical terminology to describe their new paradigm of a world made of metaphysical Information, of which Energy is one form, and Matter another. A literal translation of "Panpsychism" in view of the new paradigm would be "Universal Informationism". I just changed the spelling for reasons spelled-out in the thesis.Maybe instead of panpsychism, this paradigm can be thought of as something like transpsychism, meaning that mind transcends organic matter. Coinage of a really good term for it might be fun to contemplate. — Enrique
Maybe instead of panpsychism, this paradigm can be thought of as something like transpsychism, — Enrique
I'm not familiar with exact science behind the brain's electromagnetism, but I imagine it could simply be emergent from tens of billions of neurons conducting voltage simultaneously, and this EMF along with brain matter might have coevolved so that cellular mechanisms of additive superposition in entangled wavicles are integrated with saturating and perhaps finely modulated radiation as our qualitative perceptual field. — Enrique
Electric fish generate these pulses using special cells called electrocytes. These run in rows along the length of the animals’ bodies. These cells pump positively charged sodium atoms, called ions, from inside themselves to the outside. Then the cells open gates to let the sodium ions back in. The flood of ions back into the cells produces an electrical pulse. The voltages of all the electrocytes in a row add up. It’s similar to how the row of batteries work to collectively power a flashlight.
An electric fish uses its weak pulses like radar. Those pulses create an electric field around its body. This acts like a bubble of electric current. When another animal enters that space, the fish detects a distortion in the electric field.
https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/shocking-electric-eel
Those versed in quantum mechanics find it likely that extremely rapid rate of turnover in the ion flow cycle of nerve cells necessitates that these ions take the form of a tunneling wavicle as they enter and leave cells through transport channels. — Enrique
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.