is there any philosophical insights for people who simply dont like the premises of life? — schopenhauer1

By premises you mean the living space, or the space dedicated for the operation of life?

Try redecorating your apartment or home. Pink is in this year. Chinese cherry tree blossoms are a hit.

Also, try to invigorate your personal landscape with invigorating invigors. Buy a new car, start a new hobby arranging flowers or spray-painting graffiti by numbers, and improve the looks of your spouse / lover. There is an exchange program for that now, too.

Don't eat ugly food. Avoid going to the toilet to do a no. 2 job AT ALL COSTS. Never leave your pets unattended for five months in your closed apartment.

and learning to accept things you cannot change — Artemis

What about learning how to change things you cannot change now? I'd like that much better than the quietly desparate Stoic resignation to the status quo.

Not only that, but there are tons of things in life we try to change, unsuccessfully, although by rights we ought to be able to change them.

As Nietzsche once said: 'To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering.' — The Abyss

Yes, as he may as well speak for himself.

You need to be more specific about what exactly you don't like. I can't discern it just from you mentioning "the premises of life." — BitconnectCarlos

Carl, that would be too easy. If he doesn't like something, and he tells you what that is, all you have to do to cure him is to say "stop doing that."

As Nietzsche once said: 'To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering.' — The Abyss

That is true. But not the only truth. Or not the only premise. Someone I know said something much smarter: "You can live without a lover, but you can't love without a liver."

It starts with recognizing and learning to accept things you cannot change. — Artemis

Seems like Stoicism really is a fad nowadays. I'll take Stoic apatheia or equanimity over ecstatic bliss, drugs, or other ego-tripping ideals.

I wasn't referring to love proper, in describing that heirarchy of needs. I was referring to any kind of need, particularly needs of higher self-awareness/ consciousness, which is what we're discussing here of course.

Nevertheless your response got me to thinking, that this notion of ' spreading the love' in, say, a universal Greek style ( phila, philautia, ludus, agape, etc.) perhaps, might go a long way in achieving that end goal of interconnectedness and purpose.

In another pragmatic way, the simple example would be testing the law of attraction by virtue of engaging in life and with people sporting a smile on one's face, versus a sad, angry or melancholy one.

Life is about relationships; we are all interconnected. But it truly starts with self-confidence and self-love/philautia... .

Thoughts?

law of attraction — 3017amen

Is that real?

I don't have any philosophical insights other than a sort of alternative-pragmatism. Meaning, I myself, replace therapy with hobbies and other recreational sorts of interests. Examples include anything that offers an adrenaline rush, endorphin high; riding dirt bikes, jetskiis, performing music, etc. and/or on the other side of the spectrum; meditation, hot tub, sunlight, boating, nude sunbathing, nature, etc... — 3017amen

I see your problem. You are made happy when engaging in physical activities. You are a matter-of-fact person, you calls them as you sees them, you probably live an honest and straight-forward life.

This is a problem for many who are of your disposition. Once the "fun" stops, all you have to fall back on is your thoughts, or socializing, or exchanging profoundly deep or very highfolutin ideas. Thjis is for the birds in your book of what makes life worthwhile living.

Abandon philosophy. Concentrate on sports, on sex, and on drinking and driving. In no time your life problem will be resolved.

Abandon philosophy. Concentrate on sports, on sex, and on drinking and driving. In no time your life problem will be resolved. — god must be atheist

Easy does it, dude. I just smoked a cig, do what makes you OK, as long as law-abiding.

Yes it indeed works. The keyboard player in our band turned me on to it many years ago. It's nothing new really. It's shared by both Eastern and Western philosophy. Do you want to know how to test it?

Do you want to know how to test it? — 3017amen

No, not in some selfish or egotistical sense. Just how it works, so I can spot people who exploit it. I'm paranoid that way...

What about learning how to change things you cannot change now? — god must be atheist

If there is a way to change it that you can learn, that makes it a kind of thing you can change. Learning how to make that change is just part of making the change. So in addition to the serenity to accept things you cannot change, yes, you also need courage to change things you can -- including by learning more.

Not only that, but there are tons of things in life we try to change, unsuccessfully, although by rights we ought to be able to change them. — god must be atheist

That is the part that I've always found difficult. Accepting things you're absolutely certain you can't or shouldn't change, and acting to change things you're absolutely certain you can and should, have always seemed easy to me. The hard part seems to be the wisdom to know the difference: to tell when you can and should from when you can't or shouldn't.

I generally lean toward trying to change things you might be able to, especially when the cost of trying is low, because not trying only guarantees failure, which otherwise might have been possible.

Think of it this way. Enjoy physical activity as long as your body will allow you to... . Then like in all other seasons of one's life, you can then learn /teach in order to give back, as you reeped the benefits of life's experiences.

Surely that's got to be gratifying, particularly if you're giving back from a lifelong passionate hobby or interest.

If there is a way to change it that you can learn, that makes it a kind of thing you can change. — Pfhorrest

Yes. Via learning.

There are things I can't change now, NOW, NOW, NOW, before the learning process of how to change it LATER LATER LATER. If I never embark on this learning process, I will stay in a position of not being able to change it ever. That is why I inserted what I said: people jump on the bandwagon, and learn to accept things they cannot change.

By learning to accept things I cannot change, I may miss things I can change, and NOT BE ABLE TO EVER CHANGE THEM, because I learned FIRST how to accept things I can't change.

There is a temporal process here, which is very important.

There is another thing that is very important: there are things now, really, without any doubt, that I CAN NOT DO. But if I learn to do the task, I CAN DO. Learning is an integral part of changing YOURSELF, not the things you can change or the things you cannot change.

This is not trivial, @PFHorrest.

Think of it this way. Enjoy physical activity as long as your body will allow you to... . Then like in all other seasons of one's life, you can then learn /teach in order to give back, as you reeped the benefits of life's experiences.

Surely that's got to be gratifying, particularly if your giving back from a lifelong passionate hobby or interest. — 3017amen

Why are you giving me advice, @3017Amen? I haven't a complaint, and I am satisfied the way things are going... except of course with having to put up with the witless remarks of other users on this forum.

It's funny because everybody else seems to understand the question and I just feel like a dumb person. I know my own problems. I know my friend's problems. I don't know "life's premises."

You're fine I was just clarifying your concern relative to the remarks you made about physical finitude.

What about learning how to change things you cannot change now? I'd like that much better than the quietly desparate Stoic resignation to the status quo.

Not only that, but there are tons of things in life we try to change, unsuccessfully, although by rights we ought to be able to change them — god must be atheist

I'm not against trying to find ways to change the seeming unchangeable, but I think it often leads to a lot of unhappiness when we want the change too desperately.

Perhaps a better way of putting my stance is learning to accept that things may be unchangeable, leaving open the possibility that they are changeable, but not letting our happiness depend on those things changing.

Seems like Stoicism really is a fad nowadays. I'll take Stoic apatheia or equanimity over ecstatic bliss, drugs, or other ego-tripping ideals. — Wallows

Yes, well, just say no to drugs, kid.

On a more serious note, it's my personal experience dealing with people who are struggling with mental health and/or drug issues that's led me to realize that accepting the limitations of my ability to immediately fix anything is not the same as resignation.

Yes, well, just say no to drugs, kid. — Artemis

Thanks, as corny as this sounds, I needed to hear that.

On a more serious note, it's my personal experience dealing with people who are struggling with mental health and/or drug issues that's led me to realize that accepting the limitations of my ability to immediately fix anything is not the same as resignation. — Artemis

And it shouldn't be; but, do you think these things can be taught? (Now I sound like @Banno)

The premises of life: an ever ambiguous concept — The Abyss

It took 27 posts to reach an essential point of clarity. My biggest argument with philosophical discussions is lack of clear definitions. What are some or many of these "premises?" List some, and then others can reply intelligently (maybe).

At the age of 83, the best advice I could give is

Unleash your inner existentialist — The Abyss

Now I sound like Banno — Wallows

That's gotta be an improvement...

How bad was it?

I am in that boat as well, so I wonder if the category of human beings under consideration aren't just supposed to accept burden and discontentment as part of life, and deal as anyone in their situation - through resilience and endurance. Then again, this may appear contrary to the spirit of the question, i.e. why have resilience and endurance?

P.S.: I wonder if loving and being loved isn't supposed to change that attitude. On one hand, love means caring, which implies suffering. On the other hand, caring is investment in life and a sense of purpose. — simeonz

Yes, I've noticed that acceptance seems to always be the "go to" for any of this. But how is this not trivial? Isn't living every day, default "accepting"? Also, what of things like sickness, and accidents? A lot of people think that by enduring this, that it enriches their life when they make it through. I don't know, for me, it just dulls life that much more that on top of the everyday dealings with other people, BS in general, societal maneuverings of the daily kind, there is the pain and suffering of being struck by enduring illness, injury, and the like.

As far as romantic love, how does this ameliorate anything? Building a loving relationship, and keeping one, are even more difficult these days than back in the day when it was an expectation (though leading to much unhappiness for staying in bad relationships). Besides, even the best of relationships can lead to pain from differences in expectations.

But anyways, in this more recent climate of shallowness, self-absorption, and short-sightedness, intimate partners are harder to come by these days. The whole caring about someone who is particularly special to you and you to them is diminishing as the years move forward. Increasingly, you're on your own in sickness and health, except for perhaps your immediate family (if they are still alive and well and in communication).

One can flail away at the unfairness of life's ingravescent inimicalities, but they are not going to go away. So Schop, find a place that is not too awful and endure the bad situation. It will all be over before you know it. — Bitter Crank

It is just bad situations heaped on each other, over and over again, sometimes the grinding down process is like a drill.. life just throws painful moment after moment.. sometimes it is like a slow turning screw, ever so steadily grinding you down.

Shirley there must be fresh and novel methods! — Bitter Crank

Indeed.

Enjoy! Life is for enjoying! — A Seagull

Say that to someone extremely ill. Is the illness supposed to be good because if one gets through it life seems better? You gotta do better than that.

You need to be more specific about what exactly you don't like. I can't discern it just from you mentioning "the premises of life." — BitconnectCarlos

You can't distill some premises on your own? Do I need to explicate?
If I had to characterize the premises, it is being thrown into the world with an orientation for "dealing with". Now just complete the sentence with all that you have experienced:

Dealing with...other people, their differing personalities, expectations, judgements, affects on your well-being
Dealing with...survival through cultural institutions and situatedness (socio-economic means)
Dealing with... illnesses, disorders, disasters, accidents, injuries
Dealing with...finding relationships, love, connection
Dealing with...cause and effect in general, the affects/effects of one's own decisions- poor or otherwise
Dealing with...one's own inability to be satisfied

Keep going if you wish. I've given you a nice starter.

(There are no suicides in foxholes.)

So ... any philosophical insights for people who simply dont like the premises of life? — schopenhauer1

Life is an abattoir, not an argument.

:death: :flower:

:smirk: