..."these are very loose imprecise statements..."
↪EriģcH
They are imprecise if you cross two different concepts: to believe and to affirm.
In the academic world it is understood that an atheist is one who denies that god exists and an agnostic is one who neither denies nor affirms. The theist asserts that god exists.
It seems simple enough and clear enough.
The mess has been made by certain associations of atheists who claim that they have no beliefs and therefore should not justify their position. This is absurd. Believe it or not, affirm it or not, in a rational debate your position must be reasoned. — David Mo
the academic world it is understood that an atheist is one who denies that god exists and an agnostic is one who neither denies nor affirms. The theist asserts that god exists — David Mo
Well...when I am wrong, I acknowledge that I am wrong...so...
...I thought you were an intelligent person, Dingo.
My bad. — Frank Apisa
In any case, some people might say that one of the measures of "intelligence"...is the ability to act like a grown up...no matter how tight your panties get. — Frank Apisa
"No commitment to belief in the gods", or in other words, Frankie's position in fact (even though he's incorrigibly misinformed about it):The etymological root for the word atheism originated before the 5th century BCE from the ancient Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god(s)". In antiquity, it had multiple uses as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshiped by the larger society, those who were forsaken by the gods, or those who had no commitment to belief in the gods.The term denoted a social category created by orthodox religionists into which those who did not share their religious beliefs were placed. — wikipedia
Well, according to the ancient Greeks, Frankie's doxic noncommital - "lack of belief" in g/G - is ἄθεος (atheos), or in contemporary parlance: atheism. :yikes:Atheism is a belief...not a lack of "belief."
My personal agnosticism is a true lack of belief:
I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...
...so I don't. — Frank Apisa
I'm just having a bit of fun at his expense. — Frank Apisa
Same for agnosticism — David Mo
I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction... — Frank Apisa
Well, according to the ancient Greeks, Frankie's doxic noncommital - "lack of belief" in g/G - is ἄθεος (atheos), or in contemporary parlance: atheism. :yikes: — 180 Proof
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.