When someone named Bill is born he exists. If there is no non-physical life after physical death, after the physical death of Bill he does not exist. After his physical death those who are alive can search the entire physical universe, but they will never find Bill. Bill has no present and no future, simply because Bill does not exist. What is usually missed is that in addition to no future, Bill has no past because Bill does not exist. — CommonSense
You seem to be arguing towards (nonevident here•after) rather than from a given position (evident now•here).Naturalism is not the only game, indeed the science behind naturalism rejects as absurd any search for meaning in a purely physical life. Efforts to imbue with meaning that which does not exist are futile attempts to make something out of nothing. — CommonSense
If "after physical death" is a "reality", then there must be evidence by which we can discern it from unreality (i.e. mere fantasy, wishful/magical thinking, etc), no? Provide such evidence and I'll consider it and "the reality" entailed by that evidence. (Btw, uncorroborated scriptural or testimonial accounts won't suffice because they only beg the question - like pseudo-scientific woo woo.) Absent that, CS, on what grounds (i.e. publically accessible facts of the matter) ought we to concern ourselves - organize our lives & societies - with respect to some nonevident here•after?↪180 Proof Agreed that the existential here and now is to be lived to the fullest, yet that does not address, or even attempt to address, that which is or may be after physical death. That is the reality that is most often ignored. — CommonSense
That is true. Yet the possibility of future existence is not equivalent to existence unless it actualizes. After his physical death Bill does not exist as a physical entity, even if the possibility of future physical existence is real. He may have a non-physical existence but not a physical existence. — CommonSense
When someone named Bill is born he exists. If there is no non-physical life after physical death, after the physical death of Bill he does not exist.
A logical argument for meaning and value in human life can only be built on a non-physical existence. It is far more rational to seek meaning in the possibility of a non-physical life after physical death, no matter how unlikely you may believe it to be, than it is to create a humanistic myth attributing positive qualities to that which is nothing. — CommonSense
When someone named Bill is born he exists. If there is no non-physical life after physical death, after the physical death of Bill he does not exist. After his physical death those who are alive can search the entire physical universe, but they will never find Bill. Bill has no present and no future, simply because Bill does not exist. What is usually missed is that in addition to no future, Bill has no past because Bill does not exist. — CommonSense
It is far more rational to seek meaning in the possibility of a non-physical life after physical death — CommonSense
How do you suppose we go about researching life after death? — god must be atheist
That is indeed the strategy of most religions : to look for life's meaning in some kind of afterlife, either in spirit-body or in re-incarnation. Because when you're in the middle of your life-story --- it's all Second Act, it doesn't yet make sense. That's why meaning-of-life questions usually refer to the Setup (or backstory) and the Resolution (tying-up loose ends), because we --- the not-yet existent or no-longer-existing actor or protagonist --- are not there to see where-we-came-from, or where-we-are-going.A logical argument for meaning and value in human life can only be built on a non-physical existence. It is far more rational to seek meaning in the possibility of a non-physical life after physical death, no matter how unlikely you may believe it to be, than it is to create a humanistic myth attributing positive qualities to that which is nothing. — CommonSense
:death: :flower:Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits. — Ludwig Wittgenstein
Interesting ... :clap:In GR, all of space-time exists forever. The past still exists and the future already exists. In GR time is kind of like space. My father died when I was young, but in GR, he's still there, just at a different location in time than I am. It's kind of like he's in California, only in time there's less freedom of movement than there is in space. So, while my father is alive and well in California (or actually 1969), I just can't get to California from where I am currently located.
In GR, I am not located below my feet or above my head, and likewise, I am not located before I was born or after I die. But I exist always between the bottom of my feet and below the top of my head and for the time between when I was born and before I die. — Douglas Alan
You are looking at this from a third party viewpoint. Every living being can look at the history of Bill and discuss his life using tensed language. The past I am talking about is something that belongs to Bill, something that he is aware of. After Bill's physical death he has no past, present, or future simply because he does not exist.I still don't understand what you are trying to get at here. Granted, one can only predicate things about something or someone that exists. But what does this have to do with the search for meaning? Bill may or may not find his life meaningful while he is alive. After Bill dies, or before Bill is born, there is no sense in talking about the meaning of his life, except in the past or future tense. So what? (By the way, do you also require that Bill must have an eternal pre-life, as well as an eternal after-life in order for his life to have a meaning?)
No[By the way, do you also require that Bill must have an eternal pre-life, as well as an eternal after-life in order for his life to have a meaning?)
Sorry for my unorganized replies - just getting used to the markups. As I replied to 180_proof quoting you - One misconception from relativity is that a block universe implies a permanent me that spans my worldline from head to toe, in a sense I am my worldline as you suggest. However the requirement that no event be given precedence over any other event, means that each point on the worldline is unique.When someone named Bill is born he exists. If there is no non-physical life after physical death, after the physical death of Bill he does not exist.
This assertion is false in General Relativity. In GR, all of space-time exists forever. The past still exists and the future already exists. In GR time is kind of like space. My father died when I was young, but in GR, he's still there, just at a different location in time than I am...
If there is no afterlife, then there is no transcendent meaning or value to human life. Nevertheless, there is meaning and value for a human life within the context of humankind. Individuals contribute to ther family and society, and these contributions can have an effect that persists long after their death (this is an "afterlife", of sorts).A logical argument for meaning and value in human life can only be built on a non-physical existence. It is far more rational to seek meaning in the possibility of a non-physical life after physical death, no matter how unlikely you may believe it to be, than it is to create a humanistic myth attributing positive qualities to that which is nothing. — CommonSense
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