I would think consciousness also requires a body. Much current AI research seems to be brain focused and disembodied, which really isn’t the case with human consciousness.
I think any account of consciousness arising from severally non-conscious stuff is conceptually doomed.
And we don't need such an account, there are other, more fruitful ways to think about consciousness, namely panpsychism. But by all means carry on and see if you can figure something out. I remain interested in the project.
Let's assume we have the computing power to simulate a working human brain. If the simulation isn't conscious, then that's a problem: what did we fail to simulate correctly? Because working brains are conscious (I guess sleep might be an exception to this). If we are convinced we're simulating a working brain perfectly, and it's still not conscious, then we have a mystery on our hands. — RogueAI
1. What is it about turning enough switches on and off in a certain way that gives rise to consciousness? — RogueAI
2. Why is the pattern of switching operations important? Why does pattern A,B,...C give rise to consciousness, while pattern D,E,...F doesn't? — RogueAI
3. If consciousness can arise from substrates like collections of mechanical switches, can it arise in other substrates where particles interact with each other? Say, a rain cloud? Swarm of comets? Sand dune? — RogueAI
4. Is electricity a necessary condition for consciousness? Or can you have consciousness arise from really strange collections of things? Say, for example, a bunch of ropes and pulleys? — RogueAI
1. What is it about turning enough switches on and off in a certain way that gives rise to consciousness?
2. Why is the pattern of switching operations important? Why does pattern A,B,...C give rise to consciousness, while pattern D,E,...F doesn't? — RogueAI
3. If consciousness can arise from substrates like collections of mechanical switches, can it arise in other substrates where particles interact with each other? Say, a rain cloud? Swarm of comets? Sand dune?
4. Is electricity a necessary condition for consciousness? Or can you have consciousness arise from really strange collections of things? Say, for example, a bunch of ropes and pulleys? — RogueAI
I remember reading about a hypothetical computer made with people passing notes back and forth. There's have to be a lot of people. I guess 100 billion, which is about the number of people who are living or have ever lived. It would also be very slow.
He said with no justification. — T Clark
Anyway, how is that different from pulleys and ropes?
If you're claiming that people passing notes back and forth CAN give rise to a conscious moment, I need an explanation for why I should consider that a plausible possibility, instead of something that is near impossible. — RogueAI
You've already stipulated that an electronic device, a computer, can simulate mental processes. What is a computer? It is a device with many connections. If I may be allowed to drastically oversimplify, the action of the computer is to pass signals back and forth through those connections. Those signals transmit information. How is that different than passing notes, i.e. signals containing information, back and forth. I recognize that the computer will be much faster. For logistical reasons, there is no possibility that any but the simplest computer consisting of people passing notes can ever be implemented, but we are in the world of hypotheticals, so we can ignore practical considerations.
This chain of logic is one of the reasons I'm not a materialist. Materialism leads to absurdities like:
Pushing rocks around on an endless plain in some "special" way can simulate a universe of conscious beings. — RogueAI
and on in pattern A,B,...C there's a conscious experience. That raises some interesting questions: — RogueAI
Anyone else think consciousness might be the faculty (or capacity/ability) for expressing intelligence? (hypothesis in the making) — BrianW
What is it about turning enough switches on and off in a certain way that gives rise to consciousness?
Or can you have consciousness arise from really strange collections of things? Say, for example, a bunch of ropes and pulleys?
..more fruitful ways to think about consciousness, namely panpsychism.
I think any account of consciousness arising from severally non-conscious stuff is conceptually doomed.
Yes, I think you're right about that.
This is very insightful, is this your idea?
So, from your perspective, what is consciousness? Or, what does it entail? — BrianW
I am modeling the qualia/experience consciousness as a resonant condition that does not actually exist on its own but only emerges as the waves in the container sense the boundary conditions and propagation media landscape to form something you can think of like a standing wave which represents the wave states of the whole system.
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.