Not necessarily, at its core. No doubt programs and comms will control flow and a program might simulate it (not sure about that); however, resonant wave conditions like what I generally have in mind may be best implemented in asynchronous FPGA or optical parallel (interference) pattern processing. programs and normal von neuman architectures are simply not suitable for holistic modes of beholding systems.but it can only make sense if you call it by its true name: “program”, — Zelebg
I see consciousness as the environment in which intelligence manifests/acts, as well as, the emergent property which comes through the action of that intelligence — BrianW
there is a consciousness which determines the intelligence to be used. — BrianW
resonant wave conditions like what I generally have in mind
but ultimately they can only refer to QM or attraction and repulsion of EM fields - distance, mass, velocity, stuff like that — Zelebg
Naming things is not explaining, it’s not even describing — Zelebg
I've laid out a basic framework model for it, but apparently on your deaf ears, which has you making fun by missing the point.Resonant wave conditions? You can call it “ghost”, or “black box condition”, it does not explain anything. — Zelebg
As I've mentioned before, that is a meaningless statement. everything is virtual, even our matter. everything mental is virtual. so, obvious qualia is virtual, like our consciousness. virtual does not mean something is not real, at least to someone, somewhere...Look, qualia either exists actually or virtually, and we know it does not exist actually. Ok? — Zelebg
I've laid out a basic framework model for it, but apparently on your deaf ears, which has you making fun by missing the point.
nope. Nothing to do with stuff like that.
obvious qualia is virtual, like our consciousness. virtual does not mean something is not real, at least to someone, somewhere...
How about my a virus counter example, which exhibits a high degree of expressed intelligence yet in no way would we say it has consciousness? Virus are not even considered to be alive. — Sir Philo Sophia
No? Then it has to do with, what? God? Is this a guessing game, you refuse to say? — Zelebg
I'm listening, but you are not saying anything except meaningless assertions and empty phrases. Go ahead, define "resonant wave condition". — Zelebg
Virtual is not actual, like simulated alligator is virtual and actual alligator is actual, but both are real, both are physical, both are material. — Zelebg
Sometimes, I simplify consciousness as the awareness-response (interactive) mechanism existent in everything. — BrianW
Concerning viruses, they have consciousness in the sense of a state of conditioning which defines their identity and degree of intelligent activity. So, for me, it's not that viruses don't have consciousness, but that their level of activity is intermediate between that of configurations which self-propagate biologically and those which do not. — BrianW
if everything is conscious then how does that help us define it — Sir Philo Sophia
and why are our computers or electronics not conscious, not even the way a mouse is? — Sir Philo Sophia
why would biologically self-propagating be related to consciousness. Maybe you did not mean to say it that way. — Sir Philo Sophia
why would degree of intelligent activity be determined and limited by the degree of 'consciousness'? — Sir Philo Sophia
Clearly, "degree of intelligent activity" is not sufficient. e.g., a rock has zero "intelligent activity" which would mean by you it has zero 'consciousness', but then you say ' consciousness as the awareness-response (interactive) mechanism existent in everything', an apparent contradiction. — Sir Philo Sophia
I mean intelligence cannot surpass the level of consciousness which manifests it. — BrianW
There is a great deal of intelligence manifest through the configuration we call a rock, e.g. as conceived in the activity of its atoms and molecules. — BrianW
Because human application of intelligence is vastly inferior to that manifest by nature (or reality). — BrianW
Zelebg — Zelebg
so, according to your views, a mentally retarded human (e.g., exhibiting less intelligent activity) has less consciousness than an average human (e.g., exhibiting much more intelligent activity than a retarded one) ? — Sir Philo Sophia
so you are coming from the camp of "God's intelligent design" as explaining our universe and human condition? — Sir Philo Sophia
also, you apparently are saying that you don't think that consciousness requires any level of agency. Have I got you right on that?? — Sir Philo Sophia
what working-in-progress definition of 'intelligence' are you using to make these kinds of statements, in re consciousness? — Sir Philo Sophia
No, not less consciousness. Not even less intelligence in the ultimate sense. Just a lesser degree of expression of some attributes which seem to depend on the mental faculty for expression. — BrianW
OK, so, in your way of thinking, all humans have about the same level of intelligence (difference only in how much it is expressed) and consciousness which comparable in many ways to the intelligence and consciousness of a rock. — Sir Philo Sophia
I'm not sure how such ideas further science, but they do support a good spiritual feeling philosophy, which seems in synch with many ancient eastern philosophies. — Sir Philo Sophia
Theories of atoms and dark matter were not developed from proof or experience but from translations of metaphysical ideas about the nature of things and such. — BrianW
I don't think that is correct. they always came from experimental observations which needed new theory to explain. mystical stuff rarely translates into a road-map towards much useful science. — Sir Philo Sophia
mystical stuff rarely translates into a road-map towards much useful science. — Sir Philo Sophia
In short, as I've said before, I’m hypothesizing that qualia/experience consciousness is like the resonant sound you hear when you thump a container, which resonant sound (e.g., holographic phased standing wave patterns) richly characterizes not only the shape of the container but its material parameters, this resonant sound waves is effectively coherently ‘aware’ of its whole system in a way that you never could be if you separately analyzed all the causal molecules and connections that form the container and the propagation medium the way that Integrated Information Theory suggests is consciousness; thus, at least one reason why (IMHO) their model is devoid of the qualia/experience.
I see, just like in Star Trek. — Zelebg
even if it was true, in whatever sense, it still does not explain anything like "integrated information" or "quantum collapse" does not explain anything even if it was true. — Zelebg
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