No matter how many times we have asked atheists to do that, they haven't, even though they perfectly well know that it is the Achilles heel of atheism. The truth is that they just cannot do it. Otherwise they would have done it a long time ago already. — alcontali
The Haddith, the other leg of islamic morality, actually show this islamic telephone game clearly. It is all "as narrated by xxx who heard it narrated from yyy who heard it narrated from zzz" etc. So no, you do NOT need paper to pass on information, although of course it helps. — Nobeernolife
If I just listed a bunch of rules now those rules would be written down but I don't know how that would suddenly validate them. — BitconnectCarlos
Since atheism is not a belief system in itself, just the absence of one, it is absurd to ask for atheist rules. — Nobeernolife
The disbelief in a god does not mean there is no need for ethics. — Nobeernolife
Documenting information allows it to be objectively transmitted. It also allows the information be stored without alterations. Civilization has been keeping written records for thousands of years now.
I understand that and I completely agree but I think rational people can agree that just because something is written down or it's in a beautiful book somewhere doesn't immediately give it authority or make it a source of authority. — BitconnectCarlos
It does mean that there is no need for ethics in atheism, because it rejects all other, existing rules for ethics without proposing an alternative take on ethics. Therefore, from atheism necessarily entails a trivialist take on morality. — alcontali
The hadiths are documented now. It does not matter today that they were initially transmitted orally. That only mattered in the period during which they were orally transmitted. That period is history now — alcontali
It does not "reject" any ethical system, it simply does not address any. — Nobeernolife
Living in a society of ourse requires a code of ethics, and as I said it is possible to create one without referring to Allah, Yahwe, Neptune, Zeus, or Hoitsipotsli. — Nobeernolife
That period lasted for hundreds of years, so for an extremely long time, muslim morality was simply transmitted orally... something you claimed is impossible. — Nobeernolife
"Believing" in a religion means that you accept the religion's moral rules as a matter of self-discipline. So, if an atheist accepts, for example, the moral rules of Christianity, then he is simply a Christian and not an atheist. The same is true for an atheist who keeps the moral rules of Islam, or any religion for that matter. — alcontali
I did not claim that it was impossible. Can you quote me on that? — alcontali
Yes, I do. I took my kids out of school for a whole year, appointed an (excellent) Filipina tutor for their English instead. Next, we travelled all together around SE Asia for the whole year. The result is that my kids are now fluent in English while their current classmates are absolutely not. So, I simply changed the priorities. — alcontali
Saddling an entire generation with usury-infested student-loan debt? Wow. Do you want a revolution, or yet another insurgency, or what?
By the way, saddling someone with usury-infested loans is not the same as giving that person "help".
In that case, you are not helping the student. Instead, you will be helping the banksters that will originate these loans and who will make endless amounts of money from charging usury on them. You will also be helping the universities who will be able to pay million-dollar salary to their principal and faculty deans. The students? Not so much. With their worthless degree they will, more likely than not, end up in a dead-end part-time job slinging coffees at Starbucks. — alcontali
You really do not seem to understand the student loan crisis, do you? — alcontali
You seem to think that your simplistic way of reasoning is solving a problem. No, it is creating problems! — alcontali
If you want to learn how to solve problems, then study some engineering instead of your liberal-art nonsense. Do something "hard" for a change! As I have told you earlier, your simple minded views do not solve the problem. No, they are the problem! — alcontali
No, I know for a fact that this is not true.
No matter how many times we have asked atheists to do that, they haven't, even though they perfectly well know that it is the Achilles heel of atheism. The truth is that they just cannot do it. Otherwise they would have done it a long time ago already. — alcontali
Atheism may reject God's law, i.e. tenets and rules, but it clearly does not propose alternative tenets or rules. That entails that there would be no need for moral rules. Hence, according to the atheist view, all behaviour would be equally moral.
It does mean that there is no need for ethics in atheism, because it rejects all other, existing rules for ethics without proposing an alternative take on ethics. Therefore, from atheism necessarily entails a trivialist take on morality. — alcontali
Furthermore, an atheist who is consistent will not accept God's law while simultaneously rejecting the lawmaking God. — alcontali
That behaviour does not make sense. Seriously, why would he do that? Why would he put in effort in keeping the self-discipline mandated by a God in whom he does not believe? How would he motivate that to himself? — alcontali
There is simply no evidence that atheist morality exists. If it exists, it can be documented. So, where can we read a copy of the documentation?
One should avoid at all costs that the animals kept in one's house as domestic pets be allowed to defecate on the lawn of the neighbor.
I know this creates questions, but what if Christians outlaw pornography and we have all the porn stars making an honest working at Jack in the box! — Gregory
A Christian advocate is threatening to sue the NFL for discrimination towards Christians, showing immodesty without warning, and putting souls in danger. All because of the Lopez-Shakira show — Gregory
And, as I pointed out, it is possible to construct an ethical code without referring to religion. — Nobeernolife
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