that attempting to control is futile so you automatically let go of it. You can't "induce" enlightenment it just happens to you. What I don't get is how that leads to the "end of suffering" that Zen purports to achieve.
a "sudden realization" that attempting to control is futile so you automatically let go of it. You can't "induce" enlightenment it just happens to you. What I don't get is how that leads to the "end of suffering" that Zen purports to achieve — khaled
. I for one would like to know why there are so many schools of Zen, Buddhism, etc that teach radically different things. — khaled
a "sudden realization" that attempting to control is futile so you automatically let go of it. You can't "induce" enlightenment it just happens to you. What I don't get is how that leads to the "end of suffering" that Zen purports to achieve
— khaled
Because they say the origin of all suffering is (inevitably unfulfilled) desires, so giving up trying to control things, giving up desires and just accepting everything, makes you immune to suffering. So they say. — Pfhorrest
try telling your body that when, for example, you feel the cane of a Zen master on your back.They claim that ignorance (of our true nature: emptiness) is the cause. You can’t suffer if there’s no you.
They claim that ignorance (of our true nature: emptiness) is the cause. You can’t suffer if there’s no you.
try telling your body that when, for example, you feel the cane of a Zen master on your back.
But more seriously, we are half physical body, a body which should be cared for. So the emptiness would be of the mind, while living a simple modest life with the body. — Punshhh
The philosophy of Zen can be conveyed in a paragraph or two, by many people. But without practice, it is rather meaningless. — Punshhh
Those few [Westerners] who took the trouble to visit Japan and begin the practice of Zen under a recognized Zen master or who joined the monastic Order soon discovered that it was a very different matter from what the popularizing literature had led them to believe. They found that in the traditional Zen monastery zazen is never divorced from the daily routine of accessory disciplines. To attenuate and finally dissolve the illusion of the individual ego, it is always supplemented by manual work to clean the temple, maintain the garden, and grow food in the grounds; by strenuous study with attendance at discourses on the sutras and commentaries; and by periodical interviews with the roshi, to test spiritual progress. Acolytes are expected to develop indifference to the discomforts of heat and cold on a most frugal vegetarian diet and to abstain from self-indulgence in sleep and sex, intoxicating drinks and addictive drugs. Altogether Zen demands an ability to participate in a communal life as regimented and lacking in privacy as the army. — Harold Stewart
They claim that everything is empty. The body or mind makes no difference.
... on the ground, things are more complex and embedded in the cultures in which they originated and practice in a religious life is key. — Punshhh
Because they say the origin of all suffering is (inevitably unfulfilled) desires, so giving up trying to control things, giving up desires and just accepting everything, makes you immune to suffering. So they say. — Pfhorrest
Agreed, although this does not diminish the benefits which may be available in religious orders. For example the monastic, religious, or spiritual life may involve such a transcendent process. However this may only be one of a number of exalted states/tools practiced/used during a living process/journey.On the ground, or anywhere else for that matter, we may derive the benefit (primarily meaning) of religion and/or manipulate ourselves into a state of what is typically referred to as “transcendence.” The experience of transcendence does not require a religious framework. The major benefits of a transcendent experience are that it subdues our sense of self or DMN neurology with the effect of reducing existential anxiety and depatterning the mind.
Finally can anybody tell me the difference between enlightenment, and the delusion that you are enlightened??? — Pop
Such as???
This is an amateurs' forum, so one doesn't expect credentialed experts to spend time here — jgill
Yes, I like that :rofl: well said - and i agree - as we get older we are better able to integrate and unify ideas, and deal with situations, and that is a form of enlightenment.
So you are saying there are many forms of enlightenment?? — Pop
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