Registered American voters only, please. — Relativist

Fair enough. If I were one, I would vote for whoever the Green Party nominate. You need the option "other" in there.

Bernie hasn't begged his supporters to vote Biden ....yet.

That might have an effect on the outcome.

(Remember this time?)

I tried editing it to add 'other' but that didn't seem possible. How about voting 'stay home' and clarify your position in a post?

Yes, you'd have to do the whole thing over, so the workaround seems sensible.



I think they have less reason to feel bitter this time. Biden won because Dems want him not because the DNC conspired against Bernie etc. As Hanover loves to point out, America is a conservative country on the whole. There were certain states where Bernie just had no chance and that was enough to tank him.

Here’s the results of a similar poll in the last election.

That's good info. Thanks. I infer that Biden would get at least 75% of Bernie supporters. Possibly more because of the variety of issues with Hillary.

Even so, what matters are the Bernie voters in swing states.

I'm vacillating on staying home or voting for Biden, but I live in solid blue state so it doesn't really matter what I choose. If Bernie drops out he'll endorse Biden and ask his supporters to do the same, and like 2016, the vast majority of them will vote for the Democratic nominee.

More Sanders voters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton voters did in 2008 for Obama. I imagine the same will happen this time around given the stakes. Trump is right now plunging the country into a health and economic crisis through his carelessness and incompetence. I can't imagine that that would be easy to ignore.

Yeah this really needed an "other" option.

I live in a solid blue state so I usually vote 3rd party (usually Green) because to do otherwise would be to throw my vote away. If the Democrats ever nominate a candidate that at least moves them in the right direction, like Bernie, then I'll vote for them as a reward.

But f I lived in a swing state, I would vote for whoever got the Democratic nomination just to stop the Republican candidate (so long as those nominees continue to stand for the things their parties generally stand for), so I answered "Biden" in this poll.

I created this poll because Bernie supporters were disputing my claim that Biden had a better chance of getting elected than Bernie. If Bernie supporters vote Trump over Biden, Biden will lose. But if they'll vote for Biden, even begrudgingly, they don't have much basis for disagreeing.

This does not mean Biden would make the better President. Some folks in that thread seemed to take it that way.

I live in a solid blue state so I usually vote 3rd party (usually Green) because to do otherwise would be to throw my vote away. If the Democrats ever nominate a candidate that at least moves them in the right direction, like Bernie, then I'll vote for them as a reward.

But f I lived in a swing state, I would vote for whoever go the Democratic nomination just to stop the Republican candidate (so long as those nominees continue to stand for the things their parties generally stand for), so I answered "Biden" in this poll. — Pfhorrest

I live in Texas, a heavily red state. But there is at least a small chance that Texas will go for Biden. If Texas goes that way, Trump is likely to lose in a landslide. That would make me very happy, so I will do my little part to help that possibility happen.

I hope Biden selects a younger, healthier, more functional Vice President. I hope the vast majority of voters will hold their nose and vote for the unappealing Joe.

I voted for Bernie in the Primary. It was a pleasure. That's the first vote in a long time that I was happy to cast, no reservations -- other than Bernie's age. And other than all the barriers that would lay in the way of Bernie accomplishing anything. Biden is too old too, and less substantial than Sanders.

. Could have early stage dementia. Sort of like Reagan.

Could have early stage dementia. Sort of like Reagan. — Bitter Crank

Reagan had dementia? Now that I don't recall.

Oh dear.

I hope Biden selects a younger, healthier, more functional Vice President — Bitter Crank

That's inevitable. The alternative is a corpse, and I don't think they're eligible.

My current prediction for VP: Kamala Harris

:up:
:up:

I created this poll because Bernie supporters were disputing my claim that Biden had a better chance of getting elected than Bernie. If Bernie supporters vote Trump over Biden, Biden will lose. But if they'll vote for Biden, even begrudgingly, they don't have much basis for disagreeing. — Relativist

That depends entirely on whether Biden voters would do likewise. If Bernie and Biden voters are equally likely to vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination over Trump, then neither is more electable than the other on that account.

On the other hand, if Biden voters are less opposed to Trump than they are to Bernie, and so more likely to defect to Trump if Bernie gets the nomination, then that makes Biden more electable, sure.

But some quick thinking along these lines suggests that, in general, if being less like the opposition (in an effectively two-party FPTP system like ours) is better, and being more like the opposition is more electable, and electability is a salient criterion for nomination, then the worse candidate for any given party's nomination will always be more likely to get it.

Upon reflection, that's a pretty obvious consequence of the underlying problem: voters (modulo the effects of the electoral system) are leaning in the worse direction. If voters in general favor Biden > Trump > Bernie, or generally any preference order than ranks Trump (or almost any Republican) over almost any Democrat, then of course elections are going to swing in a Republican-ward direction.

Bernie Sanders supporter here. Put “Trump” in this poll, by which I mean a vote against the corrupt DNC and against Joe “I love me some Black votes Peoples!” Biden.

But the odds are equally split whether I will vote Chump, Green Party, write-in “Bernie Sanders” in magic marker all over the ballot, or stay home. Tired a dis shit...

Go Independent Bernie! Don’t kiss the DNC’s royal ass again. Rupture the “party” and encourage independent Conservatives to rupture the GOP as well. Time for Progressives to grow up, rebel, and move out of DNC daddy and mommy’s leaky basement. This is about more than winning the next 4 years. It’s about the big picture. The “big ugly dying meta-imperialist wage-slave culture” picture (or whatever else you want to call it) that we can’t look at very long without getting physically sick and needing some mindless entertainment to make it all seem to go away for a while.

Reagan died of Alzheimers.

Could have early stage dementia. Sort of like Reagan. — Bitter Crank

Reagan had dementia? Now that I don't recall.

Oh dear. — Pfhorrest

Reagan died of Alzheimers. — Bitter Crank

I was referencing his testimony on the Iran-Contra affair, wherein he repeated many, many times "That I don't recall" or "I don't recall" to almost all of the questions. And when asked about his own JCOS Chair by name, famously said "oh dear" as he tried to remember who that was.

And the joke, besides just that reference, is that me not remembering Reagan's well-known dementia/Alzheimers suggests that I myself am having memory issues, to which I remark "oh dear" upon the realization.

Though since you didn't get the reference, maybe you're the one who should be saying "oh dear". ;)

Oh, I got it right away, alright, but I felt compelled to mention that the much honored Reagan was losing his mind while he was president. So did you. We're on the same track, just trying to one up the other. You probably won this round.

:up: :victory: :cool:

NPR talked about a study or poll which claimed that many more Biden voters would vote for Bernie than Bernie voters would vote for Biden.

Regardless... electability quite simply is an unknown.

The facts of the matter are too numerous and disparate. Trump will make Biden look bad in a nationally televised debate. There is far far too much accurate footage, that does not even need to be doctored.

Bernie destroys Trump in a national debate. He would make him look like the fool that he is.

Regardless... electability quite simply is an unknown. — creativesoul

Sure- we can't KNOW who is more electable, but we can and should make a best guess.

Bernie destroys Trump in a national debate. He would make him look like the fool that he is. — creativesoul

Trump says stupid things every day. There's so many of them, that a few more won't change anyone's opinion of him. Trump WILL twist the "socialist" label, and lots of people will fall for it. He'll pounce on the high cost of Bernie's programs, just as did his Democratic debate opponents. More voters are likely to be swayed by nonsensical one-liners ("Crooked Hillary", "brain dead Bernie") than by reasoned arguments. It will be painted as "our side" vs "communism" (Trump has already called him that).

He'll do the same thing with Biden, of course. I just don't think the debates will make much difference to voters. No one voted for Biden because of his strong debate performances. They voted for him because he's moderate and they believe he's got the best chance to win (regardless of whether you believe it. It mattered to the ones who believed it).

Sure- we can't KNOW who is more electable, but we can and should make a best guess. — Relativist

The best guess at an unknown is also... unknown.

Beliefs tend to change when people become aware of the facts. Some will not. Those are not in play.

Ross Perot got nearly nineteen percent against Bush Sr. and Clinton.

Ross Perot!

Sanders takes everyday average American votes from Trump as well as the ones that were for Sanders anyway in the '16 primaries. I don't think that Trump has increased his support to the extent that those lost votes would be recovered.

How would that play out in a field of three?

Bernie could easily inform the black voters of how the DNC has been horrible for them, as well as the RNC. This would be irrefutable. Bernie could easily show that he was right at the time as well. He knew then that it was a mistake that would be devastating to underprivileged Americans, including but not limited to blacks. Many feel as though they were being tricked and/or lied to, and they were. Bernie knows and did at the time. He won't say it that way, nor need he. He just lays the facts on the table... and let's people go... huh... really... and draw their own conclusions.

Yeah.

I think he would win in the current political climate, as long as the debates were many and at prime viewing times, as they very well should be given the seriousness of presidential elections.

It would take high poor turn out though, because higher income people will definitely turn out, and although many may vote for Sanders, I think that most would not.

Bernie could easily inform the black voters of how the DNC has been horrible for them, as well as the RNC — creativesoul

Great idea! He could tell them, "What have you got to lose?" Hmmm...that sounds vaguely familiar.

Ross Perot got nearly nineteen percent against Bush Sr. and Clinton. — creativesoul

Perot got zero electoral votes. Hillary won the popular vote 48% to 46%. The election will be won in the swing states.

He just shed light upon the history of Biden as it pertained to everyday Americans... as well os less fortunate ones. He's yet to have mentioned what could be...

He's hinted at it though.

Doesn't look like he will run as an independent though. So... nevermind that idea.

As of now, 22% of survey respondents have said they will not vote for Biden if he's the nominee. This implies you disagree with Bernie's asessment of Trump, as he stated it in the debate (see below). Why do you trust his judgment in other matters, if he's so wrong about this?

Bernie said:

"[It is] unacceptable for Trump to be “blabbering with unfactual information which is confusing the general public...Trump is the most dangerous president in the modern history of the country. ...“The United States cannot deal with a president who is a pathological liar, who is running a corrupt administration, who obviously doesn’t know the Constitution, who believes he is above the law, who is a racist and a sexist and a homophobe."