I hope I'm wrong, I have relatives there, but I expect Trumpmerica is more likely to walk itself blindly into a disaster than do what's necessary, which is a total and extreme shutdown.

Did you know the reason a lot of leftists have long hair is to cover up the little horns growing from the sides of their skull? Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself as I break out the popcorn and watch in hopeful glee as the covid death toll mounts.

Collective insanity.

I've never seen so much fear and anxiety. Aspirin kills more people a day than this ever will.

What the fuck is this, the Spanish plague?

hope I'm wrong, I have relatives there, but I expect Trumpmerica is more likely to walk itself blindly into a disaster than do what's necessary, which is a total and extreme shutdown. — Baden

I think that's your Irish Catholic third cousin about to be the POTUS.

I've never seen so much fear and anxiety. Aspirin kills more people a day than this ever will. — Shawn

Notice how when I say to all these comments "you'll understand in a week or two" none of my astute interlocutors ever comes back with reasons the situation should be expected to be any different than is described currently right now in Italy? But please, try to succeed where others have failed.

I don't know what your position is. Anyway, thinking nowadays is becoming so hard to do that I just lay in bed and relax and hope I go to heaven with my small piece of sanity.

I don't know what your position is. Anyway, thinking nowadays is becoming so hard to do that I just lay in bed and relax and hope I go to heaven with my small piece of sanity. — Shawn

Thanks for joining and promptly existing the discussion. Your contribution has been noted and catalogued. I will ask you later if you still think your island is the sane one, once consequences enter your personal sphere it should be easier to judge; hands on learning and all that.

Thanks for joining and promptly existing the discussion. Your contribution has been noted and catalogued. I will ask you later if you still think your island is the sane one, once consequences enter your personal sphere it should be easier to judge; hands on learning and all that. — boethius

I think most of this is self-inflicted. I observed the plunge in the stock market, and it prompted me towards the conclusion that people are rather not worth dealing with.

Beam me up Scotty!

I think most of this is self-inflicted. I observed the plunge in the stock market, and it prompted me towards the conclusion that people are rather not worth dealing with. — Shawn

Why did't you deal with those people in the stock market by placing put options or betting on the winners in this sort of situation, like netflix?

Shouldn't you just learn to make better deals next time? Why conclude you shouldn't deal with people at all in a free market exchange framework? Seems rash.

... Also, why would Scotty be motivated to beam you up in a moneyless society dedicated to the betterment of mankind? Implausible fantasy if you ask me.

I hope I'm wrong, I have relatives there, but I expect Trumpmerica is more likely to walk itself blindly into a disaster than do what's necessary, which is a total and extreme shutdown. — Baden

What would you call a disaster? The only truly deadly pandemic has been HIV/AIDS with 32 million people dead.

Let's just look at deaths from prior pandemics in the US. Naturally the death tolls vary quite much, but still I guess they can give some information:

Pandemic.................number of deaths in the US
1957-58 Asian flu: 69 800
1968-1969 Hong Kong flu: 34 000 - 100 000
2009 H1N1 "swineflu": 12 000

Now, do you remember 2009? Did swineflu get similar precautions as today? I don't think so.

My argument is that people now will think that if 10 000 people die of corona-virus in the US, that will be a disaster.

You’re seriously under selling your point with those stats.

22,000 people in the US have died of the flu THIS YEAR already. HIV? How about heart disease which kills nearly 20 million a year. Cancer, around 10 million. Malaria, 1 million. Corvid ... at worst it may, just possibly, nearly compete with cancer this year. If I’m being honest I think it’s more realistic to view it as maybe competing with malaria.

The real issue is what will happen when the next strain comes around. That could be terrible - they’ve been warning about this for years already.

There is little doubt in my mind that Coronovirus is being exploited mercilessly as a profit generating idea, based on fear, anxiety, and paranoia.

You invest in your stock options as much as you want.

I'm tired of this world.

You’re seriously under selling your point with those stats. — I like sushi

No, the stats are only a good point if there was some reason to believe deaths and injury from Corrona would of similar magnitude as previous pandemics.

But this whole logic that "the liberals are inventing" is just ridiculous. If Trump was in charge, and the facts didn't warrant "banning flight with Europe for 30 days" and declaring a state of emergency, why would Trump do it then? To please the left? It makes no sense.

Certainly if it was really a hoax or overhyped by keeping a cool head Trump would prove his superior genius and all the other attributes he attributes to himself. Why go along with a ruse if you know it's a ruse and you're the president of the united states?

He even becomes self aware that the logic makes no sense when he has to add "diminished power" before explaining it's all whipped up by liberals.

Based on current case fatality rates under triage conditions, global deaths could be as high as 100 million. If 70 percent of the world gets it and there's 1 non-diagnosed mild case for every "case" and the case fatality is 5 percent, then that's roughly 120 million people. An order of magnitude more deaths than cancer and many additional risks that we simply don't know yet: long term injury, reinfection, complications, more dangerous mutations, etc. Maybe we get lucky ... maybe we don't.

It's these basic numbers that is causing these completely unprecedented responses from governments.

There is little doubt in my mind that Coronovirus is being exploited mercilessly as a profit generating idea, based on fear, anxiety, and hopelessness. — Shawn

Even if that were so, isn't that just good marketing?

Lot's of ideas make money by taking advantage of psychological weaknesses in people. Can Windows and Mac compete with my Debian Linux, I don't see any rational basis for it, but I don't see why I shouldn't wish Microsoft and Apple success in exploiting psychological weakness in people to make them desire their products, that then make it easier for me to compete in the market place with my numerical analysis service taking advantage of software people were foolish enough to give away for free! talk about an ocean of insanity over there. Indeed, I wish Microsoft and Apple all the best. Why, if you've lost money failing to predict these events, I feel nothing for you, but I divert my energies to taking the market share from anyone who made a similar mistake.

If C is the conclusion of A leading to B, and if A and C are intrinsically motivated by the desire to make money out of psychological weakness found in B, then what?

then what? — Shawn

Smells like victory to me.

, stupidly I'm just presuming Alex Jones's anti-coronavirus toothpaste doesn't really work and the spread in the U.S. will be similar to other countries who failed to take the virus seriously enough when they had time. — Baden

This changes your point, which was that graph told me something. Now you're telling me I can extrapolate from other data from other countries. Maybe yes, maybe no. The Italian population is older than the US.

Yeah, and whoever buys into the idea is then what, again?

I'm not buying in your scenario, I'm selling.

And I'm raking it in.

Good for you, then. Money never motivated me so go figure.

Good for you, then. Money never motivated me so go figure. — Shawn

Then why does a stock market move lead you to change your dealings with people in the first place?

I asked my kids if they are suffering because they know there is suffering in the world. They said, "No. There is also happiness in the world that wouldn't be realized if there wasn't some suffering". Smart kids.
— Harry Hindu

That makes no sense actually. Do you pine over the happiness not being realized by the non-existent aliens on Mars? — schopenhauer1

What I said makes no sense to you and what you said makes no sense to me. Are we speaking different languages, or what's the problem?

I don't understand. What do you mean?

t seems that Trump has succeeded in getting into every socialist-in-liberal-clothes' heads. Trump is all they think about to the point where almost every philosophical topic turns into an opportunity to bash Trump. That's pretty sad when that is what dominates the thoughts in your mind.

It’s how they signal their bona fides to one another. — NOS4A2

You mean like how the religious signal their bona fides to each other? I'd agree. Their hatred has reached a religious fervor. It's sad to have your mind dominated by the acts of Trump (Satan or the Anti-christ in their mind), because of the bubble they allow themselves to be put in.

It seems that Trump has succeeded in getting into every socialist-in-liberal-clothes' heads.
— Harry Hindu

The notion that liberals are closeted socialists is another sticky idea, apparently. — praxis

No.

I said socialist-in-liberal-clothes', as in a wolf-in-sheep-clothes, as in knowing you're a socialist, but trying top pass yourself off as a libertarian (the only true liberal), in order for you ideas to sound more reasonable to others.

You’re seriously under selling your point with those stats. — I like sushi

I took as example equivalent pandemics. When they find out that heart disease is caused by an infection, that will be the day.

Corvid ... at worst it may, just possibly, nearly compete with cancer this year. If I’m being honest I think it’s more realistic to view it as maybe competing with malaria. — I like sushi

Exactly.

Yet any disease that can be treated or avoided with government action is given a focus. That's the whole point. You see, people take an Earthquake is taken as a given. Only construction regulation, first response and medical treatment effect how many die. Yet it's totally different if the same amount of people would die in a terrorist attack or war. Those we can prevent.

If by closing the border you can spare X amount of people from dying, will you close the border and face an economic downturn. Which government will choose then to keep the border open? Where do you draw the line? If you keep borders open and there isn't a recession and If 10 more are killed? Would that be Ok? What about 100 more deaths? 1 000? 10 000? 100 000?

The thing is, you cannot argue with counter-factuals of "What if nothing would be done, then how many would die". It doesn't go like that. Hence once a pandemic is over a level of reporting, then governments will act. So this might be the new normal if and when there are pandemics, even less dangerous ones.

So this might be the new normal if and when there are pandemics, even less dangerous ones. — ssu

Sound like we'll have more opportunities to buy Apple and Microsoft stocks at discount prices. Nice! Sounds like a good reason for the media to fan the flames of some crisis.

From the companies themselves nonetheless.

22,000 people in the US have died of the flu THIS YEAR already. HIV? How about heart disease which kills nearly 20 million a year. Cancer, around 10 million. Malaria, 1 million. Corvid ... at worst it may, just possibly, nearly compete with cancer this year. If I’m being honest I think it’s more realistic to view it as maybe competing with malaria.

I took a look and the statisticians are suggesting that the mortality due to heart disease is around 650,000 per year,
https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm
Also cancer deaths are about the same level, in the US.

Unless you are referring to global figures, but you and ssu appear to be discussing US figures.

With Coronavirus we are being told that every country is likely to loose a few millions of citizens in the next few months due to something theoretically avoidable. That is the difference and it is unclear what degree of action will cause a significant reduction in these figures. No one knows how this will end, or if an effective vaccine will be found. Hopefully it won't be to bad and we will pull through with our civilisation unscathed. And we take this as a wake up call for what you suggest next.

The real issue is what will happen when the next strain comes around. That could be terrible - they’ve been warning about this for years already.

The Federal Reserve just slashed interest rates to 0%. Wow.