There are no closed borders as far as I'm aware. I can jump in my car and drive to France right now. — Benkei
France
French President Emmanuel Macron announced on March 16 that France's borders would be closed from March 17.
The French leader, however, added that the country's citizens would be allowed to return home.
The EU's external borders were also shut for 30 days from March 17. This does not apply to US citizens departing France to return to the United States.
Coronavirus
Follow the advice of the local government and keep a close eye on (local) news.
Traveling to and through France is only possible with a valid reason. There is limited public transport and air traffic. The external borders of the Schengen area are closed, except for Europeans with a permanent residence in the EU or returning nationals.
Travelers traveling to or through France must fill in (or transfer) the attestation de déplacement dérogatoire (statement of reason for relocation) and state the reason for the trip (tick the 4th box - déplacements pour motif familial impérieux - and add it manually: retour aux Pays-Bas).
I don't think so, especially if you look at this from a different point of view.As to this thread. Nothing is going to change except some technocratic tweedling and fiddling to make sure the system continues to work with as little interruption as possible next time. — Benkei
That's the way it goes.
First it was cheap labor, then as the labor gets more expensive, it has to be more productive and the industries change. Then it becomes a service economy. At start the clothing industry was mainly in the First World. Then the clothing industry migrated to Southeast Asia and China. From there it will migrate to Africa, if everything would go as earlier.
Something being "cheap" is quite relative. What has happened is that absolute povetry has truly been reduced. We in the West just whine about our economic recessions, but that (the reduction of absolute povetry) is the good thing that has happened in the World we usually haven't even noticed.Hopefully higher living standards and reduction in poverty will go with it. I suspect that, if cheap labor ever runs out worldwide, it will become less centralized in this or that country. — NOS4A2
How did terrorism change our lives? I haven't experienced any fundamental changes except air travel became more of a hassle. — Benkei
If anything we out to become more science oriented and focused on issues that can be dealt with by science. — Shawn
Science can't tell us anything. Scientists can, but we should only listen to what they have to say about their relatively narrow areas of specialization. Economists purport to be (social) scientists, but only by assuming that the independent decisions of billions of individual humans are amenable to analysis in a manner analogous to laws of nature.Science can't tell you whether to deliberately crash your economy in the expectation that not doing so would be even worse. — fishfry
Exactly. I have been saying for years that science is an especially systematic way of knowing, while engineering is an especially systematic way of willing. There is no one "right" or even "optimized" solution to any given real-world problem, because tradeoffs are unavoidable and require the exercise of practical judgment, not a strict application of technical rationality.That decision can never be the output of any rational process. — fishfry
How did terrorism change our lives? I haven't experienced any fundamental changes except air travel became more of a hassle. — Benkei
What then does constitutes a change fundamental change for you? Never is there that kind of fundamental change from one year to another.So, life as normal. These are changes in degree, not fundamental. The economic structure in society remains the same, the real politik approach remained the same and our solutions to the same problems remain the same (throw a bucket of cash at it). — Benkei
That decision can never be the output of any rational process.
— fishfry
Exactly. I have been saying for years that science is an especially systematic way of knowing, while engineering is an especially systematic way of willing. There is no one "right" or even "optimized" solution to any given real-world problem, because tradeoffs are unavoidable and require the exercise of practical judgment, not a strict application of technical rationality. — aletheist
One of the reasons Clinton fought hard to get China to be a part of the WTO was that he wanted them to be more like us, liberalized, on the path to freedom, democracy and human rights. As it turns out, such an arraignment is a two-way street. As statism, the suppression of the internet, and censorship become the norm, the arraignment seems to have also made us more like them.
So I think you're right. This pandemic has made apparent our reliance on Chinese manufacturing, even for the most basic of products, and hopefully altering the supply-chain to a better deal will begin shortly after. — NOS4A2
People will come to respect the importance of cooperation among sovereign nations. Global cooperation, not globalism. This could become a movement.
— fishfry
A movement for global cooperation you say? Like the UN? Or the Paris accord? Or the ICC? — Echarmion
What gives you that idea? I can still travel from the Netherlands to other EU countries without problems provided that I meet the requirements of a lock down in any receiving State. — Benkei
I hope that the spread of corona virus and the existential threat it creates is enough to show nearly everyone in the world the incompetence of our political leaders and impotence of our government in doing that which needs to be done in times of crisis. Constantly putting people in charge who only care about their own stock portfolios and can not act in times of national crisis (when the right actions will cost them money in the short term) is a recipe for our own extinction.I know we have a corona virus thread generally - but in this thread I would like to consider the uncomfortable questions that no one seems to be asking at the moment as we try to, on a global scale, weather the storm. My question is once we get past this pandemic, or some countries have managed to eradicate it anyway, what will the shape of society to come look like? Although I was too young to understand the significance of it, I guess I'm framing it in a way we frame 9/11 now, with some of the most fundamental assumptions in relation to how society should work being absolutely shaken and then replaced, for example, airline security.
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Would be curious to hear your thoughts. — Dogar
I more or less agree.I am pretty pessimistic about it all. The worst possible thing will probably happen: things will go back to being just as they were before, after some time. — StreetlightX
Nobeernolife told some of the changes, but how about the train wreck that has happened in the Middle East? Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan do have some effect on what has happened here later. Not just that some of my reservist friends have seen war in Afghanistan, which was quite different from the usual Blue Beret missions. — ssu
There has always been a war on infections, viruses, outbreaks, etc since before any of us were born. The only problem is up until now there has never been anything to really threaten the safety and security of enough people until this outbreak. Lately more money has been put into things like solving erection dysfunction then coming up with the cure for widespread diseases (since it is often a problem that people with the former issue have money but not people with the late issue) but with the corona virus this might change a bit.The real question is if we make this permanent: If every time there is an outbreak somewhere in the World, are we ready to hit the breaks if it comes to our continent / country? When will there be an all clear sign given? With 9/11 it didn't happen. Even killing Bin Laden wasn't the end. — ssu
Hopefully, we will get full authoritarian measures to get dumb fucks to stay inside rather than let them run about in public masturbating over their "liberty" and causing irreversible social and economic collapse, not to mention many more dead people. If not, just line the fuckers up against walls and shoot them. If they haven't learned now what's necessary, they never will and are useless to the rest of us. Social Darwinism at its finest. :heart: :kiss: — Baden
I more or less agree. However the corona virus has shown us one thing is security risk that comes with our reliance on China for vital supplies and what can happen if China decides not to export such supplies due to a "China first" mentality (or any other reason) during a global crisis.As long as capitalism exists, this will never happen. It's been a race to the bottom to secure the cheapest labour and manufacturing costs, and the world will continue to rely on China no matter how much anyone pays lip-service to orienting the supply-chain domestically. The one way it could happen of course, is to devastate and immeserate local populations so that others can compete which China at the same level. Which, given what COVID is doing, just might happen. — StreetlightX
if China decides not to export such supplies due to a "China first" mentality (or any other reason) during a global crisis. — dclements
So, life as normal. These are changes in degree, not fundamental. — Benkei
I am weak on the details. I read that Germany closed its borders. — fishfry
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