It has, Except to illegal migrants who say the magical world asylum. Same as Sweden. — Nobeernolife
I'm all for global cooperation. And borders. Good neighbors make good fences, that's one way to look at it. — fishfry
Well, that means that in our lifetime and our parents nothing remotely fundamental has happened.The last meaningful change was the labour participation of women, which has caused significant changes to the social structure, changing gender roles and dynamics. The light bulb. Washing machine. Industrial revolution. Moving from feudalism to democracies. — Benkei
Sure, but the question is what measures do we make after this example. How do we respond to another outbreaks?there will never be a true "all clear sign" from the treat of some other threat without some miracle medicine coming out in the foreseeable future. — dclements
Really? I assume you haven't lived in a summer cottage where you have to haul the water from a well? It does take time. And soap?Soap and running water didn't do much in terms of saving time. — Benkei
Says Benkei discussing the issue with strangers from another countries using the internet.Since they had time to do other things than housekeeping they decided more power was due. It also increased productivity very significantly in ways that the internet certainly hasn't. Except for the distribution of porn I suppose. — Benkei
I think that how people actually live is quite more important. How much time we hang in the net, for work or for leisure time is important. It does make this time different from early and mid 20th Century.I'm more interested in the social and economic changes in how political power is distributed, amplified or structured. — Benkei
This is my point. In the 1970's there was a lot of terrorism in Europe, yet the issue was treated more as a police matter. Now similar attacks would case a different reaction. And likely after this ordeal the way we respond to possible outbreaks is going to change. — ssu
the oil lamp and candles did not lead to night life. Only the light bulb did — Benkei
The washing machine is a 19th century invention that greatly reduced the time needed to wash for women. Soap and running water didn't do much in terms of saving time. — Benkei
9/11 is one good analogy for the present crisis. The 2008 financial meltdown is another.My question is once we get past this pandemic, or some countries have managed to eradicate it anyway, what will the shape of society to come look like? Although I was too young to understand the significance of it, I guess I'm framing it in a way we frame 9/11 now, with some of the most fundamental assumptions in relation to how society should work being absolutely shaken and then replaced, for example, airline security. — Dogar
It seems reasonable to expect there will be further consolidation in a range of industries following a similar pattern: In this range, many smaller and weaker businesses will fail, while bigger and healthier businesses increase market share, benefiting from the disruption to the market as well from corporate socialism in the form of government bailouts funded by taxpayers. I expect these effects are likely to be realized not only in travel and tourism but also in food retail and food service, and more broadly in retail and service sectors, and perhaps in distribution that serves smaller retail and service sectors.The shape of the aviation industry to come, then, seems to look towards a consolidation of powers; a monopoly shared amongst the biggest airlines who can afford to keep going through these stressful times. — Dogar
I expect this may be one of the most important and enduring effects of the 2020 pandemic. The way the crisis is being used to promote mass hysteria and force authoritarian policies and precedents is analogous to the way 9/11 was used to promote mass hysteria and pass the Patriot Act.In France one requires a form to leave the house. In the UK, one can be arbitrarily detained if he is suspected of being infected. Curfews, lockdowns, an economy crippled by our collective absence... It's surprising how quickly people have handed away their hard-fought liberties because of this pandemic. I suppose they were too busy enjoying their liberties to want to protect them, and hopefully an event like this will remind them of the costs of this species of complacency as it did in the wake of WW2.
But for now, authoritarianism is the dominant ideology. I suspect this will be difficult to roll back once we get through this. — NOS4A2
This is my point. In the 1970's there was a lot of terrorism in Europe, yet the issue was treated more as a police matter. Now similar attacks would case a different reaction. And likely after this ordeal the way we respond to possible outbreaks is going to change. — ssu
Other way around. Possible outbreaks, things that earlier would have been in regional news and medical newsoutlets or papers will be headline news. We'll learn from this.Now the terrorism is pretty much ignore by the politicians and media. Is that what you suggest for corona? — Nobeernolife
Rationality is a tool, and like all tools it is only well-suited for certain purposes. It can get you from a set of premisses to necessary conclusions, but it cannot stipulate those initial assumptions. That goes for both theoretical and practical rationality--if you want to achieve X, rationality can help you identify means to that end, but it cannot specify X itself; that requires a deliberate choice on your part.Rationality's a fraud. — fishfry
Yep. This is the point I'm trying to make.Despite 40 large planes being hijacked, we managed to not militarize airports. — Bitter Crank
They're not illegal if they have a right to asylum. But nice xenophobism. — Benkei
but if you mutter the magic word "asylum" it does not matter who you are or where you are from... you are welcomed into the welfare system. — Nobeernolife
No, I'm pretty sure you have to also show that you're in danger if you return home. You can't just claim asylum and that be the end of it. — Michael
Your first post referred to migrants as "illegal" but now you seem to be attacking the laws regarding asylum itself. — Michael
I don't think there's this sinister plot to make our countries into police states. It's that politicians will act on our fears and when there's the technology and ability to do something, they will do it. — ssu
Yep. There's actually no sarcasm in that, because when you have politicians who promise everything for everybody and portray themselves as quite omnipotent, then they simply will act so. Never mind the Republicans portraying themselves as being for "small government" is simply a sham.Precisely. There is nothing conspiratorial about the observation that the State is opportunistic about extending its control — Pneumenon
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