I agree, I don't think you can love other people if you don't love yourself somewhat. The way you treat yourself, the relation with yourself, tends to spill over into your relations with others. So I don't think pretentiousness and assholishness come from self-love really, but rather from some skewed way in which you relate to yourself.

Narcissus was not in love with his self, but with his image.

Your image is the way you envision other people to see you... and you typically want to project a certain image to get respect, praise, etc from other people if you feel you yourself are lacking... i.e if you don't love yourself.

The self on the other hand is not the way you 'imagine' yourself to be, but your whole being, thoughts, body, emotions etc... Love of self involves acceptance of all that in the first place i'd say, which would imply some honesty in looking at yourself. But that is not enough by itself I think. It needs to start from there, but there has to be something tangible in what you do, how you act in the world and relate to other people, otherwise it's would seem hard to keep accepting yourself. So I guess it's a proces of being honest with yourself, accepting what you see, and at the same time working to live up to your standards.

Narcissus was not in love with his self, but with his image — ChatteringMonkey

True; but, what else is there apart from one's image of one's self?

@csalisbury What do you think?

It seems like folks with issues have a deficit of self-love. How does one account for that?

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Think of it as like a very good and sold plinth upon which a highest good will be built. — tim wood

And, what is that?

People don't like to suffer and prefer to be happy. Self-love is a spectrum that can be hard to nail down and quantify. If you are not completely right you are atleast some what right.

Self-love is a spectrum that can be hard to nail down and quantify. — christian2017

No need to quantify a qualifier.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

If we are to love others then that means we should want the best for them, and strive to help, protect, and strengthen them however and whenever possible. So, in order to maximize the effectiveness of this ideation, then, we must strive to preserve, maintain, and strengthen our ability to continue doing so. That means we must love ourselves (first & foremost). Simply put, we (as individuals) are the source (the Q) of our universal “love of others”; as such, we must hold ourselves to the highest regard, so that we can continue holding others to the highest regard. Anything less is reflexive of just that.

Yes, self-love may seem an extreme form of selfishness. However, I view it as a necessary prerequisite for truly loving others. Otherwise, we undermine our abilities to actualize and demonstrate our love for others, via truthful speech and action.

Yes, without self-love you don't hold yourself to account. One way to look at it: when you don't love someone, you're indifferent to their actions--you don't care if they do bad shit.

Self-love, or maybe self-acceptance?

If we are able to accept and understand the flaws in ourselves, we will be able to accept and understand the flaws in others.

1. Is self-love possible without negative and highly selfish traits arising?
2. If so how does one go about doing this? — Shawn

Accepting oneself as who they are, is markedly different from thinking highly of oneself. If one starts to rank themselves above others out of 'self-love', is when it turns into arrogance or narcissism.

One thing that I believe to be crucial in accepting oneself, is complete honesty with oneself. This includes confronting and accepting one's flaws, and not ignoring them to create a false sense of self-esteem.

Great topic, by the way.

Jesus is said to have claimed that one ought not treat others in a manner that they would not treat themselves. I believe that such a sentiment cannot arise without self-love. — Shawn

What prevents self-haters from treating others as themselves?

Self-love requires one to be consistent and have a high self-esteem. — Shawn

Consistent with regard to what?
Self-esteem, as in: favourable regard of self, self-respect, or recognition of self-worth. Yes.
High self-esteem, as in: inordinate or exaggerated regard of self. No.

So, my question is twofold.
1. Is self-love possible without negative and highly selfish traits arising?
2. If so how does one go about doing this? — Shawn

Primary question:
What is self-love (in the context of what "Jesus is said to have claimed")?

True; but, what else is there apart from one's image of one's self? — Shawn

Selfhood
Self Evaluation
Self Efficacy
Self Concept Discrepancies
Self Knowledge (Neisser, 1988)
Extended Self (James, 1890)
Dialogical Self (Hermans & Kempen, 1992)

One way to look at it: when you don't love someone, you're indifferent to their actions--you don't care if they do bad shit. — jamalrob

I don't love serial killers, and I'm not indifferent to their actions.

Jesus is said to have claimed that one ought not treat others in a manner that they would not treat themselves. — Shawn

No he didn't. He said to love others as much as yourself.

It's fairly straightforward, and doesn't tax the mind too much. If you can be bothered to eat, be bothered to feed the folks around you when they are hungry.

Self-love is a spectrum that can be hard to nail down and quantify.
— christian2017

No need to quantify a qualifier. — Shawn

Everything can be quantified including personalities. When people argue using definition based arguments or on the other hand over semantics, they are in some sense using mathematics. We quantify qualifiers all day without even knowing it (a lack of exact precision in most cases).

There are one to one (a type of linear), linear, exponential, inverse exponential and other types of graphs that can link any two ideas or words or creatures. Everything can be quantified. David was told not to do a census on Israel but he did it anyway.

People might think that it's narcissistic to indulge in self love; but, I contest that notion.

Jesus is said to have claimed that one ought not treat others in a manner that they would not treat themselves. I believe that such a sentiment cannot arise without self-love. Self-love requires one to be consistent and have a high self-esteem.

Yet, many people tend to become assholes or pretentious due to this.

So, my question is twofold.

1. Is self-love possible without negative and highly selfish traits arising?
2. If so how does one go about doing this? — Shawn

Being on the low end of the love spectrum, herein meant as desirability I know how tough it is to find love; all these fairy tales about "true" love, if such a thing as "true" love event existed/exists, are simply too unrealistic to make it from fiction to fact. Thus, why not indulge yourself in some self-love, given how finding a person to do that for you is simply beyond the reach of ordinary mortals like myself. You may not deserve it though but isn't that what true love is? To love that which doesn't deserve love is the highest form of love, isn't it?

Also, the very notion of loving others is maybe based on how bad one feels when unloved. Just saying...

"And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Matthew 22.39

"Love" translated from Koine Greek agapao(v): to regard the welfare of.

1. Is self-love possible without negative and highly selfish traits arising?
2. If so how does one go about doing this? — Shawn

Love is not merely a matter of respect and esteem. We care for the beings we love. We feel obliged to care for them, to make ourselves in some respects responsible for them and to them, to act in their interest and for their sake, and therefore to understand what is in their interest.

This applies to loving oneself as well as to loving others.

Arrogant boasting, egoism, vanity, false pride -- aren't these obstacles to love of oneself as well as to love of others? Don't they seem to flow from anxiety, insecurity, fear, and self-loathing?

Learn to recognize and wear-down these obstacles to loving kindness by practicing mindfulness, sincerity, and compassion.

Compassion includes compassion for oneself, which helps us recognize and wear-down obstacles of guilt, shame, and denial.

Yes, without self-love you don't hold yourself to account. One way to look at it: when you don't love someone, you're indifferent to their actions--you don't care if they do bad shit. — jamalrob

This seems to be the gist of the issue. I believe that we need to love ourselves first, rather than being in love. Many people mix this up, for some reason.

What prevents self-haters from treating others as themselves? — Galuchat

Well, if we reduce the self as the common denominator here, then it seems that the feeling must originate from one's self rather than another.

Hence, it almost seems imperative, that we learn to love ourselves with all our defects and vices, and work from there.

I think the difference between love for oneself radiating outward and egoism or vanity is regarding the ‘self’ as distinct from others, as isolated or exclusive in some way.

Love is an action of realising potential and value.

When we love ourselves, with all our limitations, as interconnected with the world, then this love radiates outward. We can maximise perceived potential and value and transcend our limitations in increasing our awareness, connection and collaboration with the world.

To love the ‘self’ as an individual and exclusive entity in relation to a separate world, however, is to maximise our own potential and value by decreasing our perception of relative potential and value in everything else. Likewise, to love ourselves as an exclusive entity with all our limitations, we limit our love for the world.

If psychopaths love themselves, how do they implement the Golden Rule?

Is self-love possible without negative and highly selfish traits arising — Shawn

Yes, it is definitely possible, but fraught with error and traps. Hence the better method, also proclaimed by Jesus, is "To love your neighbour before your self", then "To love your self". This was clever. If you do it this way around, by abiding by the first, you automatically have the second. You cannot really love another person without loving yourself. A quote from the Children of the Law of One says,

“There is nothing wrong with loving your self either - unless that is a rationalization for actually being selfish, which is often the case. But you can really, Unselfishly Love your self. In fact, it is unavoidable if you Love Unselfishly at all. Because when you Love Unselfishly, you love ALL, and that includes your self. And when you Love Unselfishly, you feel so good about yourself that you can’t avoid loving yourself. But you don’t ever really feel good about yourself when you love selfishly - your self might feel good temporarily, but you don’t feel good about yourself. And if you don’t feel good about yourself, how could you really be loving yourself? And how could a heart full of selfishness even find room for truly loving its self simultaneously? So it is backwards- what ‘they say’ about loving yourself first. Now remember this - instead of ‘loving yourself first’, Unselfishly Love others first, and you will truly love yourself automatically. You just can’t go wrong that way. The other is too often just a clever trick of the selfish separate self, to rationalize selfishness.”

Hence the better method, also proclaimed by Jesus, is "To love your neighbour before your self", then "To love your self". — Antidote

According to The Lost Teachings of Atlantis?

But you can really, Unselfishly Love your self. — Antidote

Nonsense.

Nonsense. — Galuchat

Please expand?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nonsense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eristic

"Sefl love" is a very ambiguous term which can mean whatever one wants it to.

Likewise, to love ourselves as an exclusive entity with all our limitations, we limit our love for the world. — Possibility

Yes, well, this seems like a common theme of yours, about inter-connectivity. Yet, most people feel very lonely and sad being themselves.

How do you explain this feature of the world, that leaves us feeling desolated with our own thoughts?

If psychopaths love themselves, how do they implement the Golden Rule? — Galuchat

They do it in their own way. I don't think being a psychopath automatically means one is evil, although they do seem to have a propensity for doing very selfish acts. Psychopaths worry me; but, they lead a burdensome life of acting out their intentions in a manner consistent with what non-psychopaths would find as "normal".

"Sefl love" is a very ambiguous term which can mean whatever one wants it to. — IvoryBlackBishop

How do you characterize it?

I tend to think, that self-love, is manifest in the common psychologist parting statement until one's next visit, being "Be gentle/kind to yourself". I have felt this sentiment in many sessions with psychologists.

Another important question in my view would be:

Why don't people feel self-love?
What is preventing people from feeling self-love?